WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:01.760 METALHEAD PODCAST 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:05.260 GO! 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:27.960 You must listen. 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:32.580 You must listen. 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:38.740 Now, here's the podcast. 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:40.540 Metalheads Podcast Go. 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:42.280 Hello and welcome to the Metalheads Podcast. 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:43.300 My name is George. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.480 This is Jay. 00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:45.940 This is John. 00:00:46.620 --> 00:00:47.320 This is Matt. 00:00:48.180 --> 00:00:49.200 This is Markassan. 00:00:49.660 --> 00:00:52.280 And tonight we're welcoming Dennis Makula, 00:00:52.760 --> 00:01:22.560 The musical mastermind behind the depressive black metal band Ghostbath. The band's new album Self Loather comes out soon from Nuclear Blast. October 29th. Yeah, you know, I saw on the website, though, that it's in November. What? Maybe that's the vinyl. I don't know. Anyways, welcome to the Metalheads podcast, Dennis. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. I think it's supposed to come out October 29th, but because all the vinyl plants are pushed back so far, I think it's 00:01:22.580 --> 00:01:51.160 People aren't going to get their vinyl until November. So. Nobody does. Maybe that's where the confusion was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Well, we'll just start. Like, where are you from? And how did you start playing music? I am from Minot, North Dakota. And I got, I was born in D.C. on an Air Force base, like, um, right outside of D.C. in Maryland, Andrews Air Force Base. 00:01:52.580 --> 00:02:20.840 in the military and the Air Force. So there's a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota. And so that's where we were. And that's where we grew up. We didn't really move around as much as like other military families. I was kind of there my whole life until just recently. I moved to Pennsylvania about two months ago on August 1st. Where are you in PA? Right outside of Pittsburgh, just south in a town called Elizabeth. It's kind of a smaller area. Yep. I was just in Pittsburgh. 00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:51.440 Well, two months ago now, in August. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have family here and we just liked it out here, me and my wife. So we just, we got a house and I spent the last few months like putting together this whole office. I painted it all. And I like the blue. Yeah. It's like a dark gray, but the light is kind of blue tinted. So yeah, I don't know. I can, I can change the lights to different colors and I'm setting up all that cool stuff. Wow. 00:02:51.940 --> 00:03:20.880 But yeah, I started playing music when I was really little. My grandparents got me one of those keyboards where like the keys light up. And I learned like for Elise and Turkish March and all these classical pieces just by you like follow the keys. And once you hit it, it moves to the next one. That was the very first thing I played. And then I was playing. I played all, you know, the school instruments growing up in bands like viola, trumpet. 00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:47.780 And then eventually, I think I was in like sixth grade. I was about 12 years old. I was like, I want to play the guitar. And so that's what I asked for my birthday for my 12th birthday. And my dad said, you have to learn the acoustic first before I'll buy you an electric. So that was kind of like my prize for taking lessons and being dedicated to it. I heard the same thing. 00:03:48.680 --> 00:04:18.140 Yeah, I mean, the acoustic's harder to play and harder to learn on. I think that's the point of it, where if you can play the acoustic, you can definitely play an electric. It's easier on the fingers once you move to electric and stuff like that. So it really built up the calluses. And actually, the guy I took lessons from, I did it for about six months before I got my electric. He was in the Air Force Jazz Band, so that was his job in the Air Force. So he had traveled to air bases all around playing guitar. He was really good. 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:48.620 But yeah, after six months, he moved to a different Air Force base. And so that was the end of my lessons. And from there, I just started writing my own music. And yeah, I started a band like right away. It was, we were really into like Under Oath, Norma Jean, like that, like post hardcore thing was really big in the Midwest at the time. And that's what like a lot of the bands in our, 00:04:48.620 --> 00:05:16.500 scene we're doing and so we got really into that like the chariot like we love being like super noisy and um we would like not wear any shoes on stage and we would like climb on the the equipment while we were playing and like throw our guitars around wow that whole kind of thing i don't know we're just you know how old are you then um like 16 ish i want that band i want to know what that first electric guitar was 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:45.460 It was a red Austin. I want to say. Either a Telecaster or a Stratocaster. I can't remember. I'd have to find a picture of it. I'm pretty sure it looked like a Telecaster. But yeah, it was just like a cheap one. Obviously, like the Austin was the brand. I don't think I've even seen an Austin since then. Yeah. But my first was a Hondo. If anybody's ever heard of that Hondo. 00:05:45.520 --> 00:06:15.300 It was an Eddie Van Halen Kramer copy, but black, not red. But I had the stripes on it and everything. Piece of shit. You don't have it anymore, George? No, I do, man. I slapped Misfits and Motorhead stickers on there. But it doesn't stay in tune at all. I just have it for sentimental value. Then I got the Beast of Rich Warlock. I traded mine up right away. 00:06:15.520 --> 00:06:45.460 I did that with all my equipment through my life. So I was like, Oh, I'll sell this. I'll buy this. I did that with my amps. I did that with everything. So I, I mean, I didn't know right away. I was just like, Oh, I have an electric guitar. Finally. And I just, yeah, I was enjoying that. So. Yeah. I was going to ask, growing up on the air force basis, you would learn how to fly jets. Do you like Tom Cruise movies? Shall we call you Maverick? I mean, I had, I had little to do with that. 00:06:45.520 --> 00:06:51.400 It was a very different environment from the surrounding North Dakota area because 00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:59.200 North Dakota does not have very much diversity and so the Air Force Base brings in people from 00:06:59.740 --> 00:07:05.280 all over the country and so I had a way different growing up experience than most of the people. 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:10.340 Once we went to high school, high school was off of the Air Force Base and so it was with 00:07:10.340 --> 00:07:39.240 you know everyone who grew up in the town and so I just remember our basketball team was awesome and we won state every year it was great like I was on the traveling basketball team yeah that was a lot of fun but yeah it was just like more restrictions that I just thought were normal so like you know you'd have a curfew on the base which you wouldn't have in like a town and like all these rules you always had to have like a military ID on you if like cops ever stopped you 00:07:39.979 --> 00:08:09.220 And to like buy anything, you'd have to have a military ID. Yeah. It was interesting. It's cool. There was a lot of diversity. Never really thought about that ever, but yeah, you're going to have people from all different places, walks of life coming in on the base. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so like, I don't know for, I think be it, I don't know how to describe it. Um, like I never thought about 00:08:13.440 --> 00:08:39.219 I don't know I was okay this is how I want it but I was always friends with just people of all walks of life and so in my mind I don't know if you'd call that like sheltered or something but like it just never occurred to me that people would be like you know racist or whatever like for us you know growing up from kindergarten on my like best friends from like we're like from every race every part of the country everything and so like yeah I just felt like my my upper 00:08:39.260 --> 00:09:09.200 like that was just so much different. I just realized it more and more as I grew up. Like, you know, you never know that what you're how you grew up was like different or unique until you meet other people and then you go out and you see like, oh, OK. So what I me growing up, I had a really unique experience, you know? Yeah. You're a product of your environment, basically. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And lucky at that. Yeah, I'd say that. Yep. Especially being in North Dakota where, like you said, it's just not diverse. 00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:10.880 outside of the military base. 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:12.400 Well, it's funny you say that. 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:16.880 I grew up in Duluth, Minnesota, and our diversity came from not an Air Force base, but a federal prison. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:23.520 And so as the employees of the prison came, not the prisoners, but the employees would come from all over the United States. 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:30.400 And I mean, it definitely brought diversity to our high school is where I would relate that back to. 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:37.940 Didn't realize that until after the fact, like, oh, yeah, we were a bunch of white kids, except for the other kids that came through the prison, which, you know, was a good thing. 00:09:38.420 --> 00:10:06.460 I thought you were going to be like yeah my best friend growing up his name was tiny he taught me how to make a shiv exactly well I my high school a lot of denim my high school was like 99.9% all white you know there was occasionally like an exchange student or something but it was pretty much white but I still somehow managed to not be a dick so I don't know okay I mean I'm a dick but not that kind of dick 00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:35.860 So we're flashing back to my earlier comment before we started recording. Don't be a dick. You know, right. Don't be a dick. Yeah. So what's your background in metal? How did you become a fan of heavy music, Dennis? Um, okay. So, so on the base, there's this place called the teen center where you would just go at any time. They're like a computer room, a music room, uh, video games, stuff like that. It was just kind of like a hangout spot for everyone. And, um, 00:10:36.460 --> 00:11:06.300 In the computer room, people would always be bringing up different bands, different music videos and stuff. And that's where I first heard. I think it's a weird combination, but the two first bands I can remember listening to that were heavier was Under Oath and Demu Borgir. Opposite ends of the spectrum there? Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I liked them both. And so, yeah, those were the first two. 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:36.440 heavy bands and is one of those things where you know the more you listen the heavier and heavier music you get into the more underground stuff you get into and uh yeah so it started with them and and then um i would watch like mtv headbangers ball found like horse the band i really liked them right away i can remember from there um and yeah so i i kind of stayed um my main genres were like hardcore post-hardcore um that's really my my background 00:11:36.460 --> 00:12:04.720 And that's what I was always trying to do with our band. We were called Eye Apparatus. And we put out... That's a cool name. I don't know. I never really liked it, honestly. I like it. I don't even remember the reason behind the name or anything like that. I mean, Oculus would be better. Yeah. Oculus Rift S. Yeah. So, I mean, basically, 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:35.940 I liked heavier music and listened to it. It was just never my main genre. And our drummer was super into punk. He was older than all of us. So he, he got us into that a little more. Um, but it, it all kind of changed. Like it was, it was more recently, honestly, where I really got into metal. Um, I listened to Mero of the spirit by Agaloc. And I can't remember what year that came out, but that just like dove me straight into like all those genres of black metal. And, um, 00:12:36.440 --> 00:13:06.180 So yeah, before that, I mean, the band, we recorded with Josh Schroeder, the same guy who did a bunch of the Ghostbath records. And I thought the record turned out awesome. I was like, super excited about it. We toured on it. And like, we just gained no traction. It seemed like nobody was interested in it. And so I kind of gave up on music almost. And I went back to college and I just quit the band. I'm like, all right, well, I can't just keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results, I guess. 00:13:06.460 --> 00:13:35.720 I'd been touring since I was 16. And man, when did that band end? Like 2011. So yeah. So it's kind of like somebody threw mud in your eye then. Yeah. I was just, I don't know. I just, for some reason I was just like, well, I'm just not, I tried, you know, that's kind of where I was at. I was like, I gave it my best shot and like, it's time to like move on and like get a degree or something. So fallback position. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 00:13:37.740 --> 00:14:06.220 Smart. And so, yeah, and then obviously, like, my parents are pushing for me to do that, too. And I was just like, all right, fine, I'll go back to school. And I went for psychology, and I went through all these different things I wanted to do. Like, I was like, oh, I'm going to go to medical school. I'm going to get a PhD in psychology. I'm going to do this and that. And at some point, I was like, I miss making music. Maybe I'll just do a little side project. Like, I'll get another guitar. 00:14:06.280 --> 00:14:35.580 I sold all my equipment. I bought a guitar for like a hundred bucks. I wish I could remember which one that was. It looked like a Les Paul on it, but it was like 50 pounds. It was like heavy. It had plastic parts on it and stuff. And I was like, okay, well, I can just buy that. It's cheap. I didn't really have any money. I was going to college. And I got like a demo version of Fruity Loops, which is something I learned how to use in high school. It's like a, just a DAW. 00:14:35.640 --> 00:15:02.900 kind of like Reaper or Pro Tools or whatever. And on the demo version, you actually can't save the project mid project to come back and edit it. So you had to write the whole track in one go or I did and then save the I could export the track, but I couldn't like go back to it and fix anything or change anything. So it's like, all right, let's write a track in one session. And so I wrote that first EP, the Ghostbath EP. 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:35.300 in my parents' basement. Okay, I'm like jumping around. I'm sorry. That's fine. That's cool. It's mostly linear. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying. All right. So yeah, I was in college and I was living in a house with like five other, six other dudes, like college guys. It was like a party house. I was living in the basement and the basement flooded. And so I was like forced to go back and live with my parents. Like all, it flooded in a matter of like six hours. So a bunch of my stuff got soaked. 00:15:35.340 --> 00:16:05.220 I had to get it all out of there as quickly as possible. And so, yeah, I was living on a mattress in my parents' basement. That's when I bought the guitar. I'm like, I got to play music or something. And so I wrote the EP by myself and I was trying to get a little band together. I was like, oh, we could like play some stuff live around North Dakota or something just for fun, obviously, because school was like my main focus. And I got some guys together and then we got to the first like jam session. 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:35.220 I showed them the EP and they're all like, I don't know about those vocals, man. No one's going to take us seriously. And nobody liked the vocals. They're like, dude, people are just going to laugh at you or whatever. They're all going to laugh at you. Were the same vocals as on the EP that came out? Yeah. Yeah, it was that EP exactly. Yep. That's the one I'm talking about. The self-titled one. The very first thing we put out or I put out. So yeah. 00:16:35.340 --> 00:17:03.800 I really liked the vocals for some reason. I had been listening to a lot of Silencer. It's like a depressive black metal band. Their vocals are even more extreme than mine. He sounds just insane. I was like, okay, I'll just put this out myself. I don't need a band. I wasn't trying to make it this serious thing. I was like, all right, guys, I'll just put it out. They were no longer part of the band at that point. 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:12.100 just put it on band camp um it's funny because the guy one of the main guys he didn't like the vocals 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:18.300 um he was in a different band later on and in revolver revolver magazine he was like oh i was a 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:26.680 founding member of ghost bath or something like oh man just like using it for clout yeah pad the 00:17:26.959 --> 00:17:32.360 resume pad the resume well luckily nobody reads revolver because it's a piece of shit so yeah 00:17:36.360 --> 00:18:02.040 And I wonder if that guy has listened to the new record, because the vocals are different, a lot different than what you've done before, too. Don't get ahead of ourselves here. Let's get to that later. I know, I'm not going far. I just want to mention that. Hey, before we go any further, I just want to say real quick, you mentioned about going to school for psychiatry or psychology, you said. Interesting. Kevin Moore, former Dream Theater keyboardist, 00:18:02.540 --> 00:18:09.480 after all his wild travels around the world ended up getting a degree in psychiatry and he moved to Minot. 00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:32.300 What? Okay, I didn't know that. Apparently, allegedly he's there with Trinity Health. And when you said that, I was like, wait a minute. I know someone who did this. So does he live there now? That's supposedly he's on Trinity Health's website. Oh, Trinity Health. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's him. And I was like, that's great for him. 00:18:32.380 --> 00:19:01.920 But I'm like, fuck, that means no more OSI. So anyway, I just wanted to say it before I forgot. I thought that was kind of wild. You're saying that. Yeah, you're saying did that guy hear the vocals now, but he some crazy stuff happened with that guy. Like he was touring in like this upcoming band and he was on tour, like summer slaughter tour, I think. And he got caught like stealing artwork or something for a T-shirt. 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:02.760 without permission. 00:19:03.390 --> 00:19:04.940 And so I haven't, 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:06.200 that was like two, 00:19:06.370 --> 00:19:06.980 three years ago, 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:08.120 like before the pandemic. 00:19:08.360 --> 00:19:10.700 And he's just like disappeared on social media and stuff. 00:19:10.700 --> 00:19:13.100 So I have no idea if you heard the record or what he's doing. 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:13.920 Gosh, 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.800 I feel like I may have been at that summer slaughter. 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:17.520 Yeah. 00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:17.940 Yeah. 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:18.280 Um, 00:19:18.800 --> 00:19:20.120 so what happened after the EP? 00:19:22.100 --> 00:19:22.480 Um, 00:19:22.620 --> 00:19:24.960 I got some traction on the record. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:25.420 Hold on. 00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:28.200 So I'm moving something around here. 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:32.640 Just trying to figure out why Jay needs a pillow for the podcast. 00:19:36.340 --> 00:19:37.320 Should he just get a guitar? 00:19:37.810 --> 00:19:39.180 Yeah, he has a guitar and a pillow. 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:46.760 Jay always has a guitar in his hand if he's not either going to the bathroom or, and maybe he's got one in there, I don't know. 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:47.720 Maybe in the bathroom too. 00:19:48.700 --> 00:19:52.840 I just mean if he's got something else in his hand other than a guitar, that's all I'm saying. 00:19:54.300 --> 00:19:54.600 Sorry. 00:19:55.540 --> 00:19:57.280 This is a really handy time to practice. 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:27.920 Well, Jay, I wanted to know why you walked in the room with a pillow. I'm like, is Jay going to sleep already? No, you know what? We went to the beach today and my ass hurts because we drove a long way to get there. That's why Will is in here. We have, and I'm not, I'm not breaking. We have a BMW Z3. Remember like the James Bond one? Yeah. And we got it cheap. It's a long story, but they have these hard leather seats, dude. My fucking ass is killing me. So inside information there. So I had to get a pillow to sit on. 00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:56.720 Newsflash, Jay's ass hurts. Feel free to leave that all in. That's perfectly fine. Oh, we will. Oh, yes. Yeah, leave it all in. What were you asking, George? I just said, hey, so what happened after the EP? Yeah. Oh, okay. So there's a little more story to the EP. Because it was just me, I wanted to sort of stay anonymous and hidden. 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:28.680 on Bandcamp is the whole infamous China story here. When I put it on Bandcamp, I put nothing in the location and then it wouldn't let me submit. It said, you have to put a location. I'm like, oh, okay. What's like on the other side of the world? So I just picked China. And so that's where that sort of started. And then when the EP came out, a label from China reached out to me, like a small, small label called Solitude Production. 00:21:29.780 --> 00:21:58.640 And they put out like 50 CDs of the EP for me. And people seem to be digging it. Like it had some traction to it. And so I was like, oh, maybe I could write a whole record like in this style. Just the same exact way. Same guitar. Same Fruity Loops demos. It'll all be, you know, written one track in one session at a time. And so I made Funeral, which is our first full-length album. 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:28.260 And the smaller Chinese label said, hey, there's like a bigger Chinese label that you should talk to called Pest Productions. And I'll like get you in contact with them. I was like, okay. So I got in contact with them. They liked the music. They liked the record. They said, well, put this one out. I'm like, all right, perfect. So I put that one out and that one got even more attraction. And I think it found some kind of niche, you know, the DSBM audience was really enjoying it. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.460 I think it had like a lot of melody and it I came from you know a totally different 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.060 background than a lot of these artists come from and so I had like a different sound to it and then 00:22:38.610 --> 00:22:44.000 they weren't thrown off by the vocals because it's kind of a more of a normal style of doing vocals in 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.780 that genre and so that one came out and had a ton of traction behind it and I was like you know what 00:22:51.370 --> 00:22:57.659 I think there's something to this and so I had a thousand dollars saved up and I already knew Josh 00:22:57.700 --> 00:23:27.600 from my last band. I was like, Hey, Josh, can I come in there? I'll drive down to Michigan. That's where he's at. And can I like record a record with you? I only have a thousand dollars to spend. And he was super nice. He's like, okay, we can do like the best I can do is like three days. I was like, all right, perfect. I'll do it. And so I packed up all my stuff in my car and took off for Michigan, which is about 24 ish hours from, from Minot. 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:57.640 Where in Michigan was it? I'm from Michigan. Bay City. Bay City? Yeah. Okay. And I went, I took probably the worst way I could have took, which is up through the upper peninsula of Michigan. And it was about three something in the morning. And I see something giant in the road. And as soon as I pass over it, I like got my wheels. So I wouldn't like run over it with my wheels. I noticed 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:27.640 I was like, oh, this is, that was a giant porcupine. Like what, what the hell? And there's like trees on both sides, you know, it's super forested up there and, um, like pitch black out. And so it was very hard to see. And then as soon as I pass that porcupine, a deer comes dashing out from the woods, like full speed run. And I just hit it straight on and it like rolls over my entire car and, uh, just destroys the entire hood, the fender. Uh, there's 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:57.360 Like stuck in my windows everywhere in my in my wheel spokes. And I was like, Oh shoot. But like, luckily for some reason it let me drive. And so I drove to the next town. Wow. And, uh, uh, got a hotel room at like five in the morning or whatever. I'm like, shoot, I only have three days. I got to get there. So I, I slept for like three, four hours until it was light out. And I had to go report that I hit the deer at like the station, um, just to have a police report for my insurance and all that. 00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:26.140 And then I continued to drive and I was fine. And I got all the way to Bay City just with like a super jacked up car. And so, yeah. Wait a second. I got to break in here for just a second to just say you just described perfectly with different locations two things. One, the plot to Coal Miner's Daughter. And second was an episode of The Twilight Zone. So nicely done. You got your start the way Loretta Lynn did. Powell's your shit, your car, your drove. And a little bit of the Dio book too. 00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:55.240 Yeah, it felt like the Twilight Zone. I was by myself driving for that long. I was super tired by that time, too, because I was going to do a one-shot all the way there. By that time, it was early hours of the morning. I was just kind of in a state of delirium, we call it, when we're on tour all the time, when we're so tired and we're just driving overnight. We're all like, oh, yeah, we're delirious now. It happens at some point in every tour. 00:25:55.580 --> 00:26:24.700 Well, when he says, you know, it was a big, a big thing in the road too. I was like, please, please let this end with, and that's how we met our drummer. But. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the China thing too. Of course, we're going to have that question. Cause we hear this a lot, like recently, was it last year, John, or this year that from your crib band, the, the claim they're from China and then somebody called them out and then they. No, they said they're from Iceland and they were from like South America. Something like that. Yeah. 00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:54.760 I really I'm sorry were you going to a question with that yeah yeah so I just it's yours seemed like it was just like an accident you know like I'm gonna put this down there and then it just spiraled into something else but it does make me wonder if that's why Chinese companies were getting a hold of you well of course yeah okay yeah were they surprised when you're like hi I'm Dennis yeah I don't know there was a bit of a language barrier so it's hard to tell exactly how they felt you know just 00:26:54.760 --> 00:27:24.740 through emails. But the one main guy, like Pest, was like, oh yeah, I never even knew where you were from. I was just putting out the music. So that's what he said. I don't know. And then after, he was like, oh yeah, you're from there. I'll just put like new band, mysterious band from the East or something. He just put something like that. I don't know. So he was down with it or whatever. He's like, I don't care. How did you feelable? I mean, there was a big, like, you know, Blabberm Ralph 00:27:24.760 --> 00:27:54.340 to do about the whole thing. How did you feel about all that? Did people give you crap? Were you like, gosh, I didn't mean... How'd that all go down and how'd you feel about it? Oh, man. Yeah, there's so much. And it was a little while ago now. It was like six years ago. I'm trying to think. So originally when I was talking to like... Actually, this connects back to my story perfectly. 00:27:54.380 --> 00:27:58.060 So the first like journalists I talked to 00:27:59.780 --> 00:28:03.940 were when so my I hit the deer and I actually I made it to Bay City 00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:08.480 I recorded the whole record of Moon Lover and then I'm like okay time to head back 00:28:08.830 --> 00:28:15.180 get in my car I get like 20 30 miles on the highway and the heat meter just goes all the way up 00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:24.340 and I was like oh shit so I had to get towed back to Bay City and stay with Josh his in-laws 00:28:24.520 --> 00:28:54.240 And so I was like, well, this sucks. Cause they said it'd be like two weeks to fix my car. And I, there was a band from, um, Ann Arbor. Yes. Going on tour that I know. And I was like, Oh, I'll just like go on tour with them. They're just doing like a little, uh, regional thing. And so during that time I was on the computer, like some, some journalists reached out and I was just, uh, basically I, all I was trying to do the whole time was like, not say who I was. 00:28:54.360 --> 00:29:22.740 where I was from and just like only talk about the music basically. So anytime someone asks like, oh, like how is it growing up in China or something like that? If they would ask me something like that, I would just just ignore it like completely. And then once Moon Lover came out, that's when everything you're talking about happened because, you know, it got way more attention because it was actually, you know, a studio recorded album. 00:29:22.840 --> 00:29:51.700 So it sounded way better than, you know, the black metal lo-fi production I had done on Funeral. And so the first person to pick it up was Stereo Gum, I remember, because I was like one of the first big outlets to ever cover something I've done. I was like, oh, this is awesome. And they had mentioned, they never talked to me or anything. They just, you know, put out the article on their own. And it mentioned something about China in there. I was like, oh, that's hilarious. Like, whatever. 00:29:52.540 --> 00:30:21.540 I got an article. I was just stoked about getting covered. And then it was kind of a snowball effect, you know, where when one person covers you, somebody else does. I remember Pitchfork did a little thing and more and more people started covering it. And then Vice was the first big one to reach out to me and like, oh, we want an interview. We want this and that. So I was like, okay, yeah, let's do an interview. 00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:51.580 but I'm only emailing I'm not going to like talk to you on the phone or anything like that because I was still at the time that nobody knew who who Ghostbath was and I was like oh I can I can be like this mysterious artist or whatever so um she it was uh Kim Kelly and she she like asked me a bunch of questions whenever the the China thing came up I don't know how much of that I haven't read the article in a while like came up in that 00:30:52.440 --> 00:31:19.400 I would just sort of skirt around the China thing. I never made up like, oh, well, in this city, I enjoy this kind of food. I didn't make up my whole backstory. I would just be like, I don't know, how does growing up affect your music or something? I'd say something like, I just write from internally. I don't know, I'd skirt around it. I'd dodge the questions. 00:31:21.600 --> 00:31:25.700 and like got a ton of attention and everything's snowballing at this point 00:31:26.620 --> 00:31:32.280 and then all of a sudden she emails me she said hey like i don't think you're actually from china 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:38.000 or whatever and i was like oh okay in the original article this is important i said 00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:43.560 don't talk about our location at all like don't don't talk about where we're from i don't want to talk 00:31:43.560 --> 00:31:49.880 about that i like said that in the article article comes out the first half like i want to say six 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:51.680 paragraphs are Chinese history. 00:31:52.310 --> 00:31:55.960 And I was like, oh God, you can go back. 00:31:56.020 --> 00:31:57.240 It's the article is still up. 00:31:57.980 --> 00:31:59.400 I just laugh whenever I see it. 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:00.240 Like I told you no. 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:02.700 And then she comes back. 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:05.520 I guess some people contacted her who knew who I was. 00:32:05.530 --> 00:32:08.000 Like I wasn't, I wasn't top secret. 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:10.580 Like, oh, I'm hiding this from everyone I know. 00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:14.080 Like I told friends and so something got out or something and someone 00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:17.740 contacted her and then she was like, um, 00:32:20.040 --> 00:32:47.720 My editors don't think you exist. Can I give you a call? And I was like, okay. I don't know why, but at the time I was just, I just wanted to troll her so bad. And I just said, I sent her a quote from American Psycho, the one that's like, I don't actually exist. I can't remember the exact quote. It's like, you can shake my hand and feel flesh touching yours, but I'm simply not there. And I just sent that back. 00:32:47.860 --> 00:33:17.800 And that was the last thing I sent to her. I just thought it was funny. But anyway, yeah, she got really mad, obviously. And so did the other, the other journalists who had covered us being from China. And the whole time I was just thinking like, do you like research what you put out at all? Like all I did was put it on bank. I'm like nothing else. I don't know. But yeah. In my, and the main thing, which is like, 00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:22.660 I don't know if everyone's just trying to not give me the benefit of the doubt or what. 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:32.400 But in my mind, and maybe this comes from just traveling so much, I wasn't pretending to be like Chinese ethnicity. 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:34.340 I was saying I lived there. 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:41.620 And that's always what it was in my head until people started, you know, all these articles came out and they're like, oh, he's pretending to be a Chinese person. 00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:44.880 Like to me, it was like, you can live anywhere in the world. 00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:46.240 You don't have to be Chinese, you know. 00:33:46.300 --> 00:34:16.120 So that's kind of where I had it in my head the whole time. Obviously, like, everyone's like, oh, he's pretending to, you know, be a different ethnicity or whatever. Yeah, I remember. I remember that in the news. Sorry, Jay. I also don't understand, like, who fucking cares? Like, I mean, like, that almost seems like an artistic, funny move to me to just be like, you know, we're from, you know, Cleveland, you know what I mean? Or something like that. And you're not from fucking Cleveland. Like, who gives a fuck? Cleveland's not artistic, Jay. Yeah. But I mean, but it's not like, it's not like China comes along with some weird pedigree or something or anything. 00:34:16.300 --> 00:34:46.260 that should have given you any more credit than anything else. So I still don't quite understand why that's a thing. It's a typical media move to extrapolate the narrative they want, despite the narrative they were given. It reminds me, I'm sorry, George, it reminds me of, do you guys remember the movie Almost Famous? Yeah. And the Rolling Stone editor finally meets William Miller for the first time. He's like, he's just a kid. I thought you were some high-powered writer. And of course, obviously, in the end, it turns out he becomes one. But that's what I was thinking about. 00:34:46.300 --> 00:35:16.280 like when they were asking you these questions the whole time I kept thinking of that scene where he's just sitting there kind of like I never said I was or wasn't yeah I remember when moon lover came out and actually we probably talked about it on the podcast because the podcast started the year before that so but I remember the whole you know kerfuffle about it and I was just like I don't know it's to me it's very interesting to now find 00:35:17.640 --> 00:35:43.040 I was wondering, well, first of all, I hope you didn't take too much shit from people about it. Like, you know, people sending you nasty messages and stuff. But I was wondering if you had some sort of, what's the word I'm looking for, empathy for this band from South America that said they were from Iceland and now everybody's giving them all this grief. 00:35:46.980 --> 00:36:15.820 I never even heard that story so I'm not sure the exact situation I mean I I don't care yeah um fair enough what's funny is South America okay um you know Kim Kelly was she had to do a another article to sort of cover up the first one because obviously that was all wrong about the band and she's like oh I like I talked to Pest Productions the Chinese label and this is the interview they gave me and what they said and I looked at 00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:21.440 the person she interviewed was just some guy who helped out with the label from South America. 00:36:22.640 --> 00:36:24.760 You didn't even interview the Chinese label. 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:25.700 Wow. 00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:27.280 Strike two. 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:27.980 Yeah. 00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:31.020 And so I emailed Nuclear Blast. 00:36:31.020 --> 00:36:32.200 I'm like, what? 00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:32.920 Why? 00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:33.340 What? 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:36.540 And then they're just like, yeah, we know. 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:37.340 She sucks. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:38.720 We kind of know. 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:40.060 And that's all they told me. 00:36:40.060 --> 00:36:41.780 I'm like, okay, well, I guess there's nothing I can do. 00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:41.980 Whatever. 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:43.860 People can say whatever. 00:36:44.620 --> 00:37:14.600 But yeah, it was part, I liked that whole, I don't know if you want to call it infamy, mythology almost, because Silencer has it with them, you know, supposedly the singer got admitted to a mental hospital and all this, and he had to have that backstory, and I just want, I liked that mythology of like, oh, who is this band? Like, oh, they're from here, they're from here, and then after that, I even saw, I don't know if it's 00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:44.580 is music journalism or what I've seen that we were from like six different places. They're like, oh, this band from South Dakota. Oh, this band from Colorado, Ghostbath. I'm like, what? Like, what is going on right now? And so it's still happening, actually, Dennis, because we were trying to debate where you were from before you came on the cast. Like, where do you currently live? I feel like you're a Minnesota guy. That's funny because now every single article is like, oh, North Dakota band. And four members live in Minneapolis and I live outside of Pittsburgh. 00:37:45.300 --> 00:38:14.560 There you go, Matt. Yeah. It's just, you know, one step ahead of everybody else. That's right. I'm always moving around. I did find it interesting. I came into Moon Lover when it showed up on the year end lists. And so I was kind of backtracking into that story. And I found it fascinating. I work in marketing, so I'm all about anything, any, like anything that's interesting is cool to me. So, um, but like, yeah, to, to see like people actually upset that you weren't actually from China. And I'm like, why would you be upset? 00:38:14.660 --> 00:38:44.600 that he wasn't like born and raised in China like to your point like you just said you lived in China even if you don't live in China what like he made a record listen to it it's good like isn't that what we're all about yeah it's a difference like Dennis mentioned this if he had pretended to be Chinese that's a completely different thing well yeah they tried to transfer it to he's expropriating the background but he's not I mean didn't anybody learn from Abbey Road spiritually this has been this happened 50 years ago you know Paul is dead 00:38:46.119 --> 00:39:14.180 Yeah, he died in 1969 in a car crash. Right, and this is the fake Paul that's basically reaping all the benefits. Exactly, exactly. Paul is dead. Because they never announced the winner to that lookalike contest. Yeah, that's exactly right now. Chris Farley asking Paul McCarty about that. I remember the Chris Farley show. Yes, Chris Farley show is one of the greatest things ever. But I love it. And he said, you know that when they said you were dead and everybody said, you know, and you died and they said you died in 69. So yeah, I remember that. Is that true? 00:39:15.100 --> 00:39:44.600 I thought George is drinking himself by the way I am we'll talk about that later well we default pretty quickly and that was you this time Markisan yeah well I was gonna say um so you mentioned you really like that mythology and like creating something is that is that where the name nameless came from because you go by nameless you move back and forth between Dennis and nameless but where did that come from yeah that was that was just all a part of me being a mystery it's like okay what's like a name where no one 00:39:44.620 --> 00:40:14.520 I could just be anonymous basically without being called anonymous nameless that was you know I don't remember for that name I just just something that came to mind it wasn't like this big decision for me yeah and I there's two things one the yeah so I was like oh I could just do something like that put something else because obviously they're not from hell Michigan you know and every metalhead thinks that's fucking cool even though the band's from like San Diego I know I know I'll see it on band camp somebody will be 00:40:14.620 --> 00:40:44.600 Like, yeah, we're the span from hell, Michigan. I'll be like, Dave, Dave, do you know this guy? And he's like, nah, I don't know who that is. I just want to say they're from hell. Yeah. Yeah. And then the second thing is once it's sort of, there's like a point where it kind of changed from being this, oh, just like throw it up there and be whatever to sort of, oh, I can like create this whole like, not mystery, but like confusion. I liked that aspect of it where nobody knew who I was, what was true, what 00:40:44.620 --> 00:41:14.600 was not true. And then when I would start seeing articles come out that like didn't have accurate information, I'd be like, oh, that's cool. Maybe people will think that about me, even though it's false. And like, that didn't bother me. I'm really into fantasy novels. And there's this one that the entire book is basically about that. It's called The Name of the Wind. I don't know if you've heard of it. Yeah. So the guy, it's written in an interesting way. Like, he's just like an innkeeper and he has all these legends about him and all 00:41:14.600 --> 00:41:44.580 all these cool sounding names like bloodless and stuff like that and um he the book is just him telling his backstory and you slowly find out that like all these cool things all these like legends and names were actually not as cool as you would think just from hearing it so like bloodless he's called that because he got whipped one time and he like took a certain medicine where it stops you from bleeding so much and so everyone's like oh this guy like doesn't bleed but it's just like there's like a simple backstory to it but but from 00:41:44.600 --> 00:42:13.520 that simple thing, you know, it gets passed on from person to person and it slowly morphs kind of like the telephone game and eventually becomes like he's basically, you know, this mythological type figure. And I just thought that was really cool. I'm like, oh, this is kind of happening with like Ghostbath. I'm like, you know, everyone's like, oh, he did this, he did that. And I was like, okay, this is like, yeah, I like this. I just liked having that, that legend and, and watching like someone will say one thing, 00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:43.760 I've seen people just straight up start making up stuff too, which is interesting. And then other people parrot that and then it's just like, it just becomes all these different rumors and tales. And yeah, I like that. I don't know why. Maybe it would bother some people and then try to correct everyone about it. But I'm just like, okay, yeah. I like it. I don't like it in politics. Oh man, I wish we would have known this beforehand because we could have done. Have you guys ever seen an episode of WikiFactor Fiction? 00:42:44.320 --> 00:43:14.240 If you've ever seen that where they'll have a musician on and they'll grab their wiki page and they'll go through the whole thing and they'll ask, is that true? Is this true? I can't tell you how many I've seen where the person that's on is like, that absolutely never happened. It just proves all the shit that's on Wikipedia. That would have been fun if we could have taken that and you could have had fun with that. We sort of have that. It's the lightning round from Will. Yeah, exactly. Which we haven't done in a while. You know, it's interesting. Markisan mentioned, 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:43.740 that band that's from South America that was claiming they're from Iceland. That thing blew up on them because of the former drummer from Solstafir just absolutely lost his shit about it. He went crazy. And he has a reputation. I don't know this firsthand. It's just what I'm hearing anecdotally, but he apparently has a very bad reputation of just losing his shit. And that might not be true, so I don't know. That's just a rumor. Might know someone who knows him. 00:43:45.119 --> 00:44:13.880 But apparently, you know, when he started all that, the band, because Marcus, not an hour, we heard this out. We both liked it. The band just like closed shop, disappeared and is gone. And I did a little research. I found out that the drummer who sessioned on it is from Argentina. And then all of a sudden that they're from Brazil, but now people think that's even false. They might actually all be from Argentina. They kind of just disappeared. I think they're from hell, Michigan, actually. Yeah, they are. All of them. But they're Icelandic, 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:43.200 The Drummer was Argentina, but they didn't help. But I guess the point I'm trying to get to, long-winded, is that you seem to have taken it really well in stride because for them, they disappeared. I mean, that album, if they had legitimately said where they were from, that album would be on a ton of lists. It's getting panned because of that whole incident, and it takes away from the music. So did you think that that was going to happen with you? Did anything change recording-wise following that for you because of all this kind of hoopla? 00:44:43.720 --> 00:45:12.880 That came? No, not really. I think, you know, if people were angry or whatever at me and I felt any kind of way back where I'd want to be like comment back or say anything back to people, I just figured the best way to sort of piss them off more would just be to do well and just continue. That's the perfect attitude. Yes. Living well is the best revenge. Yeah, exactly. 00:45:12.940 --> 00:45:14.700 And so I was just like, okay, well, 00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:18.140 we're on nuclear blast now. We're releasing these records now. 00:45:18.390 --> 00:45:20.560 Like whatever, say whatever you want. You know what I mean? 00:45:21.479 --> 00:45:22.200 And yeah. 00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:25.580 These are probably the same people that are like just waiting in 00:45:25.740 --> 00:45:28.820 anticipation to find out who the ghouls are in ghost. Right. 00:45:29.670 --> 00:45:29.800 Right. 00:45:29.890 --> 00:45:31.300 No, seriously. I mean, it's not like, I mean, 00:45:31.520 --> 00:45:35.980 ghost actually perpetrated this whole false narrative on purpose, 00:45:36.160 --> 00:45:38.060 just to sell records. You know, 00:45:38.640 --> 00:45:42.060 you know what else comes to mind, John is the famous Alice Cooper, 00:45:42.100 --> 00:46:07.460 Killing the Chicken incident. Ozzy the Puppies. It's kind of true. Somehow there was a chicken on the stage and he threw it at the stage. His story is, God is my witness, I thought chickens could fly. Long story short, Frank Zappa, who had the record laid by Alice Cooper, was first on his first album. He called him and he says, is this true? He said, no, it's not true. He said, well, don't fucking tell anybody it's not true. Exactly. 00:46:12.120 --> 00:46:13.100 Let it run. 00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:36.660 Yeah, I mean, I like how you take things in stride, Dennis, because one of the questions I had, too, was that Ghostbath sometimes, you know, gets lumped in with black gays, which is a genre that gets a lot of backlash from metal fans. Not so much lately, I don't think, but it seems like that association hasn't really affected your standing the way it has with other bands, probably because the way that you take it in. 00:46:37.220 --> 00:46:54.720 A lot of those bullets, I think, bounce back just because of the quality of your music. And I think it's just, you know, there's a lot going on in your music besides that. But I was just wondering, you know, if being labeled something affects you personally and how you might go about handling it. But. 00:46:58.080 --> 00:47:26.360 I mean, there's two things. One, I think I just have a thick skin and I've, I've always had, like I have a, I attribute a lot of that to, I don't know if you can see on my face here. I have a giant birthmark. It's called Sturge Weber syndrome. And it's when you're like formed in the womb, the capillaries like bunch up together to form your brain and they're supposed to like disappear. And like mine never did. So like, this is all like, 00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:56.460 blood capillaries in my face. And so growing up, you know, people would like call you names or make fun of you or whatever, just, you know, cause you had that. And for some reason, instead of like getting angry about that or, or upset, it just kind of made me like more prideful about being different, I guess. And so I don't know, it just kind of strengthened that. And I even had like a chance to, my parents said, you know, you can have like this surgery where they use a laser, kind of like a laser 00:47:56.500 --> 00:48:04.520 for like a tattoo and it would like uh try to remove it from your face and i was like oh no i think i like it 00:48:04.620 --> 00:48:09.520 like i don't know how young i was like 10 11 something like that so i i don't know i just kind of 00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:16.280 learned to to accept being different and just being who i was no matter what you know anyone's going to label you or call you and so 00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:21.980 you know when i'm i've always had you know the vision for this band was always i was going to be 00:48:21.980 --> 00:48:51.740 a depressive suicidal black metal band who has better production than most of the genre. That was kind of my idea, you know, because a lot of it's recorded really badly, which people like and I even like to. I just wanted to do something different with it and have like a decent recording behind it for that. And and being labeled black is I mean. I don't know. I don't see it because personally, I've never listened to shoegaze in my life. Like I don't I couldn't name a single shoegaze song if you ask me. And so I'm coming from a way. 00:48:51.980 --> 00:49:21.460 way different background. Like my background still has sort of the wall of sound. So maybe that's where kind of the similarities come. You know, we have three guitars, we have a wall of sound going, but that was always what I did with my old bands, my post hardcore bands. I wanted to be loud. And like, we set up our amps in a stack, like a box behind our drummer. And it'd just be like this wall of sound. And I think that somehow mixed with the black metal translated to sort of a black gay sound, even though it's coming from way different roots. 00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:50.940 And then people always say, oh, you're just ripping off Death Heaven or something. And that doesn't bother me. I think it would bother me if it was partly true or something. But that was never a band I was trying to be or listen to. Agaloc was number one. And maybe I just failed at trying to sound like Agaloc. Because, you know what I mean? Like, oh, shit, I wish I would say we're ripping off Agaloc. Shot for Agaloc hit Death Heaven. 00:49:51.720 --> 00:50:21.640 Yeah, it was like Agaloc with silencer vocals. That's what I was going for. And so if somebody says something that's completely not true, it doesn't bother me at all. It's just like, okay, I mean, you can be wrong. It doesn't bother me. It's easy to lump bands that either come after or before to sound like somebody else who's getting a lot of notoriety. It's just, it's an easy, it's actually easy, I think. I mean, just real quick, you guys remember Lacuna Coil, they came out, they were kind of this kind of gothic, rockish, 00:50:23.080 --> 00:50:51.620 And they weren't too well known, but they were kind of known. And then Evanescence came out and sounded exactly like them. But Lacuna Cola had been out for years. And then Lacuna Cola got accused of copying Evanescence. Oh, geez. Yeah. I like those early Lacuna Cola. Yeah, I did too. And I was just like, and then they actually changed their sound to sound more like Evanescence. I'm like, so you're copying the band, it's copying you, so you're ending up copying yourself. And I was kind of disappointed with that. Well, that's a really good, 00:50:51.760 --> 00:51:21.600 point too, especially for Dennis and Ghostbath, because I feel like definitely not leaning into any of those. You're just ignoring that and making the music you want. Yeah. For sure. And it's not Black Gaze. I hate when they pigeonhole records like that, because people will read that and just say that, you know, this is what it is, I'm going to dismiss it. And there's so much more going on in the music. Yeah. It kind of sucks too, though, because it's like people expecting or wanting Black Gaze probably won't like us as much. And then people expecting, 00:51:21.740 --> 00:51:51.700 You're wanting, you know, straight black metal won't like us as much. We're like in between stuff. But I don't know. I kind of like that too. Like I said, I like being different. Like we'll be on a bill with super heavy bands and we'll purposely make our set list the lightest, most pretty songs or the opposite if we're on like a bunch of pretty sounding black gaze bands. We'll put our heaviest, most black metal type tracks. You like to be contrary. That's fucking awesome because it's different. You're giving the audience 00:51:52.520 --> 00:52:21.600 Yeah, it's a contrast. I hate going to a show and every band sounds like the same version of another band. I remember when the, at least in the Midwest, when all the breakdown bands, like, I don't know if metalcore maybe came out, just every single band was just like, oh, breakdown time, oh, breakdown time for like three, four hours. I just always hated that. So I never wanted to sound like another band on a bill. Cause I don't know. I think maybe your ears just get used to it. 00:52:21.740 --> 00:52:50.740 And then you're just like, oh, okay. But all of a sudden, if you're hearing, you know, a bunch of pretty sounding music, then we come on and we're like, blast beating and being as heavy as we can, it'll, it'll stand out that much more. Yeah. That happened when Porcupine Tree and Opeth toured in 2003. Opeth toured for the Damnation album. So on that tour, they played all of their mellow stuff, literally no harsh vocals, all clean and Porcupine Tree played everything that was their heaviest stuff. And I remember I was at a show in LA. 00:52:51.300 --> 00:53:21.160 And I remember, I think Porcupine Tree, did they come up? I can't remember who went on first. But then when Opeth played, they were playing everything off of Damnation, which is basically just a prog rock album. And there was this one guy in front just going, fuck you, I fucking hate you now for playing this fucking shit. He was just going nuts. And he was literally standing right in front of Mike, flipping him off. And I looked over and I said, he apparently doesn't have the internet. These bands said they were doing this on purpose. They were going to play the opposite of what they normally play. And I agree with you. I think it's when I go to a show, I don't want to play the opposite of what they normally play. 00:53:21.180 --> 00:53:50.900 I don't want to see the same. If I go to a death metal show, I don't want to see three death metal bands in a row. I'm burned out by the second band at that point. I want to see something a little different to mix it up. Yeah. Variety is the spice of life. Well, it makes for a better bill, I think, because you're hoping to grab people that might not know your music. You're going to have your own fans there, I would assume, but I'm guessing that when you go on those tours, you're looking to get people who may not think of listening to you that you want to bring in also. That would expand the fan base, I would think. 00:53:51.200 --> 00:54:20.400 Yeah, exactly. Like when we were on that, like, Thy Heart is Murder tour, we got so many new fans who had never even listened, knew like Black is existed, basically. So yeah, yeah, I definitely think that's true. And I just, yeah, it's the contrast of it. I really like contrast from that level, even down to like songwriting. I try to put contrast within the songs. And, you know, the contrast between pretty music and harsh vocals, I really like that. Harsh chords and pretty melodies, like, 00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:26.300 I don't know I that's one of my favorite tools to play with when like making any kind of art really 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:32.460 well as we mentioned earlier you've got the new record coming out this month called self-loather 00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:50.780 it's actually part of a trilogy that represents human emotion and the experience of an afterlife so moon lover represented tragedy ecstasy was the theme for star mourner and now you're conveying doom and self-loather can you can you talk 00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:58.480 about this trilogy concept and and what inspired you to do it sure well i'm glad i i just got this 00:54:58.640 --> 00:55:07.040 painting in that's behind me um it's by a artist mark rothko um he painted in like the 50s and 60s i want to say 00:55:08.160 --> 00:55:12.780 um so yeah this is like a tiny replica usually that painting would be like eight feet tall 00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:19.280 and like six feet wide they're like giant canvases of just abstract art you can here i can like move it up a 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:49.260 I just saw possibly that exact Rothko possibly on Antiques Roadshow I shit you not really yeah no way I mean well that wouldn't have been the original but it had a Rothko that was similar let's put it that way oh yeah his paintings are like millions of dollars if you get an original um so yeah that's obviously not an original but um yeah our our guitarist showed me it and before before the band I knew I knew our guitarist and he showed me Rothko and I really 00:55:49.260 --> 00:56:19.240 I liked it and I saw a few at a museum and they're really cool like I when I took a painting class I was like oh I can just make one of these it's easy you know he's one of those artists that everyone says oh I could do that you know when it sells for millions of dollars they'll look at it like it's just two blocks of color but it's very hard to make it look good honestly so anyway he was interviewed you know and he was asked what what do you paint like what are you trying to capture in your paintings and his 00:56:20.339 --> 00:56:49.220 I'm trying to capture basic human emotions, tragedy, ecstasy, and doom. And so that's where it kind of the spark of the idea for the trilogy came from. I really liked that. And I wanted to do, do the same. I wanted to capture tragedy, ecstasy, and doom. And so that was the plan from the beginning. Like when I, after funeral was done, I was like, okay, I'm going to make this trilogy. And these are sort of the themes and how each of these albums are going to sound. And I had the plan from like 20, 00:56:49.280 --> 00:57:18.380 2014, 2015 for all three. And so I tried to express those three things, but while also still expressing like sorrow within each one because it's depressive black metal. And so I kind of looked at depression or sorrow through the lenses of those three basic human emotions. And then there's a second part. I don't know if I'd say, well, there's, I tried to make the trilogy like three different things. 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:46.720 So that was the first one. The second one was moon, sun, and stars. And the third one was Dante's Inferno, Purgatory, and Heaven. And so Purgatory was like Moon Lover with the grays, kind of middle tones. Star Mortar is super colorful and stars. And I wrote a short story for every song on that one that's about angels, like biblical angels, like the creepy looking ones. 00:57:49.020 --> 00:58:18.760 You know, like the eyes all over their bodies and stuff like that. So there's a short story for each one like that. And so like Moon Lover is more straightforward, you know, tragedy. And then to get sort of the sorrow and depression out of ecstasy, I used angels and like from their perspective, like apparently, like according to the Bible or whatever, they're supposed to be, you know, they don't have a choice. They have to worship God. 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:48.920 You know, like humans were special because we can make the choice. We can choose to follow him or not, but angels are like forced to. And so basically I just took each track was about an angel who suddenly, you know, got the ability to, Hey, what if I don't want to want to worship? And, and they're like seeing what they're like forced into and they're super like sad or depressed about that. And so that's what those stories and that song is about. And then this one was originally supposed to be sun loather. Um, but once the, 00:58:49.000 --> 00:59:18.980 The Lyrics were done and the art was chosen. I don't know. It just didn't really fit. And I was like, self-loather fit way, way better for a depressive black metal album. I liked the ring to it. I really like titling stuff. And then a trilogy, fantasy. I already said I love reading fantasy books. And so a trilogy made sense. There's tons of fantasy trilogies that I 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:20.580 I love. So I was like, oh, I can do that with music. 00:59:22.160 --> 00:59:23.920 And also write fantasy. 00:59:24.050 --> 00:59:28.440 And I love like titling chapters or titling books and stuff like that. 00:59:28.640 --> 00:59:33.400 So, yeah, it's just this grand plan I had. 00:59:34.110 --> 00:59:41.060 I don't know why exactly I decided to do it that way, but it just gave me something to look forward to, I guess. 00:59:41.520 --> 00:59:45.780 Well, it's really interesting, too, because Star Marner was a lot brighter, like you mentioned. 00:59:45.880 --> 01:00:14.400 And this one is definitely darker and doomier. How was it for you to make that switch to something that's like a change in tone? I think it really helped because this was the first one that I had the other band members help me write. So when I write stuff, I mean, it sounds way more like everything previous to this album, if it was just me, where a lot of melody, a lot of straightforward time signatures, you know, four, four. 01:00:14.560 --> 01:00:44.540 I focus a lot on on chord changes I really love just finding the right chord to go into the next chord just simple things like that I like simplicity and music like minimalism and so that's that's sort of my voice and my take on music when I write and so when I was we were planning this next record I'm like I need I need people who don't write like that because you know a lot of the stuff on this record I would never have been able to come up with on my own that's just not my style that's not you know 01:00:44.540 --> 01:01:13.940 something I would write. Like a lot of the riffs, a lot of the darker riffs, different, more complex time signatures and rhythmic stuff. I don't think I chugged it all on any previous albums even. So yeah, it really changed it up. And that's, I think, the main catalyst that would help make this one sound a lot darker. Because you can still hear my influence on it with a lot of the melody. 01:01:14.560 --> 01:01:44.520 the chords that you're going to hear I came up with and you know the transitions but then some of the a lot of the bass riffs are you know if it's like tremolo picking this dark riff that sounds a little dissonant that's going to be something that like John or Tim wrote and yeah I think it wouldn't have been possible for me to write something like that on my own so and so that was that was a big choice because I didn't want to just write the same album over and over and I needed to differentiate it in a 01:01:44.560 --> 01:01:51.680 a lot of ways. And I think my main way of differentiating it personally was my vocal style, obviously, because it's way different on this one. 01:01:52.700 --> 01:02:07.580 That's what was it? Was it different for you to, to give up? Well, not give up, but allow other people to come in and write parts of the music because you've been doing it all yourself. It seems like, you know, how did that go for you and the band? 01:02:10.620 --> 01:02:40.580 It was something we were planning ahead of time. So even though I wrote all of Star Mourner, that was the first record I didn't record all the parts on. Each member recorded their own parts. So I kind of took it a step at a time. So like Moon Lover, I wrote and recorded every performance myself. Star Mourner, I wrote everything, but everyone in the band performed. And then this one was like the final kind of step where everyone wrote their own parts. It was kind of a return to how I wrote previously to this band because my last band, I 01:02:41.220 --> 01:03:09.620 We'd only write all together in the same room. I didn't write on a computer with a guitar at all. I didn't even know how to do that at that time. And so this one, it's just a different experience. It was kind of a return to where I was before the band. And it was easier than I thought it would be. I am a control freak for sure when it comes to the artwork, the titles, the track listing, every little piece. 01:03:10.319 --> 01:03:39.660 I have to make sure it's how I want it. But for some reason with writing the music, I kind of told myself like, you know, if you want it to, if you want to grow, if you want to change as a band, if you want to do something new, you have, you have to let them have their own say. And so I gave myself a rule that like, you know, everyone could give their input on every part. So I could play a part and someone could tell me, oh, you should do it this way, or we should change that. But for each person's part, they had to do it this way. 01:03:39.700 --> 01:04:08.280 the final say on their own part. So let's say our drummer wanted to do a blast beat and I wanted a different beat and we all talked about it for a while and then he's like no I really think we should do a blast that's what we went with. So I think that that just I don't know it was an easier process than I thought it would be because we never got into any big arguments or anything like that. We've known each other for a long time and all these guys have been in the band playing live with me since 2015. So. 01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:37.780 It helps because you trust them. Yeah, I definitely trust them. My advice to you, though, is to put the brakes on there, though, because the logical next progression is you're not in the band at all anymore, and they just take it from here. We don't really need you now. You weren't supposed to give that away yet, though. I'm trying to get out of this, all right? Come on. They're going to be like the old band. We don't like the vocals anymore. You're out. Yeah. 01:04:38.420 --> 01:05:08.380 Well, I found out something for the first time with this record that if you write the lyrics, you get like 50% royalty like off the bat. That's like a standard. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. For songwriting. I didn't know that. I was like, really? The lyrics? I need to write lyrics more often than now. Well, it's true because the other albums, they didn't really have lyrics, right? They were like a mix of just sayings and made up stuff, right? So what changed on this one? 01:05:09.660 --> 01:05:11.740 Yeah, the idea of the pre- 01:05:11.900 --> 01:05:12.380 No, no. 01:05:12.500 --> 01:05:13.440 Yeah, yeah. 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:15.740 I found out I could get 50% of the royalties. 01:05:15.740 --> 01:05:16.780 I was like, I'm writing lyrics. 01:05:17.160 --> 01:05:17.460 No. 01:05:17.460 --> 01:05:21.640 I didn't even know that till like very end of this process where nuclear blasts 01:05:21.740 --> 01:05:25.080 like, okay, how should we split the royalties? 01:05:25.080 --> 01:05:26.960 Usually the lyrics are 50% and then the rest is split. 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:28.760 Even when I'm like, what? 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:30.700 That just blew my mind for some reason. 01:05:30.700 --> 01:05:33.100 Because like in my mind, everything's just as important. 01:05:33.100 --> 01:05:34.540 Like it's an even split to me. 01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:34.059 Right. 01:05:36.900 --> 01:06:06.500 Previously, have you heard of the band Sigur Rose? Yeah, of course. They're actually from Iceland. Actually from Iceland. That's a legitimate Iceland shirt. Or Game of Thrones. I think I grew up with that in California. Yeah, they don't use lyrics. And I didn't know that because I just thought they were speaking like Icelandish or whatever language they speak. I think it's called Icelandic. So I just assume that's what they're speaking. 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:07.800 speaking in their songs. 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:10.780 And then I found out one day, somebody told me I really liked them. 01:06:10.780 --> 01:06:13.040 No, they just make it up as they go. 01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:13.980 I was like, what? 01:06:14.620 --> 01:06:15.680 And I re-listened to it. 01:06:15.680 --> 01:06:16.760 I'm like, oh, this sounds cool. 01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:19.380 Sounds like he's just making it fit the music. 01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:21.360 And so... 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:24.080 They call it Hopelandic, just so you know. 01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:25.120 Hopelandic. 01:06:25.140 --> 01:06:25.920 It's their... 01:06:26.120 --> 01:06:26.180 Yeah. 01:06:27.980 --> 01:06:29.060 That's like the band... 01:06:29.060 --> 01:06:30.160 You guys probably don't know this band. 01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:30.960 Maybe Jay. 01:06:31.540 --> 01:06:33.340 The band Magma from France. 01:06:33.460 --> 01:06:33.760 I know. 01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:35.000 But I know the name. 01:06:35.300 --> 01:06:35.420 Yeah. 01:06:35.660 --> 01:06:37.520 He literally made up his own language 01:06:38.540 --> 01:06:39.060 to sing it 01:06:39.780 --> 01:06:41.800 By the way, Dead Can Dance is the same way 01:06:42.020 --> 01:06:43.900 There are English lyrics 01:06:43.970 --> 01:06:45.760 in Dead Can Dance, but there's a lot that are just made up 01:06:46.620 --> 01:06:47.860 It's completely unique 01:06:48.110 --> 01:06:48.700 to them only 01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:52.700 We'll be cut you off there 01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:56.380 Oh, yeah, that sounds like 01:06:57.260 --> 01:06:58.000 J.R.R. Tolkien 01:06:58.090 --> 01:06:59.960 He made up the Elvish language 01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:02.100 He wrote the books to 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:03.119 fit that 01:07:03.140 --> 01:07:33.040 But yeah, so my I did like Sigur Rows for a long time. And then I was like, okay, well, I could use like the silencer, depressive black metal style, do it with, you know, made up vocals or whatever. And I think subconsciously, it was sort of sort of a corner cut, because I only have three days to do the record. And I wrote I had like a week to write it. So Moon Lover, I like, I wrote in like, 01:07:33.120 --> 01:08:03.040 Each song took like two hours or something. And I was like, I didn't have time to do the lyrics. I'm like, I'll just do it when I get to the studio. And so I got there and I like went in the booth. I'm like, all right, just play the song and I'll just do it in one take. And then I just, you know, made it up as I went, whatever I thought fit with the parts because I knew what was coming up and stuff like that. And so with this new one, I think it'd become one of those things kind of how we were talking about earlier with the bill being all the same band. I was like, I don't, 01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:32.980 I need to differentiate what I'm doing on vocals more because it can start to get a little bit samey and repetitive in my mind. And so I was like, I can use it more as a contrast or a little splash here and there instead of the main vocal style. And so that I'd never done like black metal vocals before or I was super influenced by like death metal type stuff like blood incantation. I think I like them. I don't know. 01:08:33.140 --> 01:08:33.660 Yeah. 01:08:33.779 --> 01:08:35.080 I like tribulation, but I'm 01:08:35.120 --> 01:08:37.259 took off the shirt, so we're not sure. 01:08:37.839 --> 01:08:39.799 Stay tuned for that. That'll be coming up soon. 01:08:40.220 --> 01:08:40.339 Yeah. 01:08:41.840 --> 01:08:42.240 Foreshadowing. 01:08:42.859 --> 01:08:43.120 Yeah. 01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:48.060 Like tomb mold, witch vomit. I was listening to a lot of that lately. 01:08:48.620 --> 01:08:48.799 Nice. 01:08:50.259 --> 01:08:53.180 And I was like, oh, this sounds really cool. How do I do this? 01:08:54.339 --> 01:08:56.920 You need to find a cavern deep in a mountain somewhere. 01:08:58.779 --> 01:09:01.520 That's funny because that's every time I'm at a show with a sound guy, I'm like, 01:09:01.580 --> 01:09:31.339 Like, make me sound like I'm in a cave, please. That's the only way I can explain it to him. Because if I'm just like put on a reverb, it'll just be like the tiniest bit of reverb. I'm like, no, please. More reverb. Dude, how many times have I said that to sound guys? Oh my God. So yeah, I had to learn like from scratch how to do like the new style vocals. And I found these videos. There's this guy called Cardavox Academy. I don't know if you've seen him. He's like a vocal teacher. 01:09:31.560 --> 01:10:01.520 But he's like a screaming vocal teacher. And he like has every technique of how to how to do it. And so I watched his videos and he like explained it. I don't need to get into like the technical part of it. But where you don't use your vocal cords, that was the main thing. Because whenever I was on tour, previously, I lose my voice after like two, three days. I'm like screaming at the top of my lungs with my vocal cords. And then I just couldn't even talk after that. Which sucks. Yeah. Like for the bloodstool. 01:10:01.580 --> 01:10:31.540 I don't know if you've seen that live footage of us I had no voice I don't even know how I screamed in that I was like I was completely gone the day before but um I I came up with this like sort of ritual to do before to prepare my throat for doing like the lower and the mid vocals and I read you know alcohol dries you out don't drink so I stopped drinking um a lot of water I drank a ton of water sugar is bad for your vocals I stopped eating sugar completely I like did all of this for about two months prior to recording 01:10:31.560 --> 01:11:01.460 I practice every day and I could hear, you know, the difference. It sounded like it didn't feel like dry or like hard to push out and it got really easy to do. And so like now, since I've stopped doing all that stuff, I bet I probably couldn't even sound like I do on the record. I'd have to like re-prepare my throat and my body. Yeah. So there's a whole process to do that. And, you know, ideas for the vocals just came from all over the place. Another really big one that I think helped. 01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:04.760 for depressive black metal is UARAL. 01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:09.240 Where are they from? 01:11:09.400 --> 01:11:11.800 Like Portugal or Spain or no, 01:11:11.980 --> 01:11:15.100 they're from Argentina and they they're depressive black metal, 01:11:15.200 --> 01:11:16.560 but they only do super low, 01:11:16.700 --> 01:11:17.560 like guttural vocals. 01:11:17.710 --> 01:11:18.020 And it's like, 01:11:18.100 --> 01:11:18.220 Oh, 01:11:18.260 --> 01:11:19.140 that sounds really cool. 01:11:19.240 --> 01:11:19.520 It's like, 01:11:20.080 --> 01:11:22.960 it's like Spanish classical guitar and guttural is put together. 01:11:23.320 --> 01:11:24.920 So check it out. 01:11:25.040 --> 01:11:25.760 It's interesting. 01:11:25.980 --> 01:11:26.180 Yeah. 01:11:26.300 --> 01:11:26.360 Yeah. 01:11:26.360 --> 01:11:26.880 It sounds great. 01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:27.920 You're all. 01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:28.720 Yeah. 01:11:29.300 --> 01:11:29.520 Um, 01:11:29.980 --> 01:11:31.180 sounds of depression. 01:11:33.420 --> 01:12:00.060 Sounds of Pain. Yeah, that record's really good. It's like that kind of stuff. Mixed with metal, but yeah. It's like classical guitar, piano, synths, and guttural vocals. Yeah, so all that put together, I was just like, okay, let's do the new vocal style. I just wanted to, I think the reason I was so hard on myself to prepare, because I knew people don't like change, and so anyone who listened to us before, if I totally changed my style, they're going to be thrown off by it at first. 01:12:00.100 --> 01:12:30.060 And so if I was going to do it, I had to like actually sound good. I couldn't sound like weak or, you know. I mean, it sounds great. I love the vocal. And it feels like they're pushed forward too in the mix because George and I actually talking about Star Mourner because I was talking about much. I love that record when you asked to come on the podcast and George was listening to me. He's like, the vocals are really pushed back. It's almost like part of the music. And I was like, yeah, that's what I like about it. But then you did this one. I was totally surprised when I listened to it because it's way different. 01:12:30.160 --> 01:12:59.920 But it works. I love the lower register that you incorporate in there too. Really great. Yeah, that was always something. The lowers were easier than the mids. The mids were very hard. When we were touring, I think I figured out I could kind of do the lows when we were touring with Dying Fetus. I was like, pretend to be them. Don't say you're in a sound check. Be like, all right, test the vocals. I'd be like, oh, what was, we came up with some dumb grindcore band name. 01:13:00.100 --> 01:13:29.680 Like, I just do that to test the mic in my guitars. But yeah, Dying Fetus is awesome. So I was like, oh yeah, I can do these low style. And I even did, if you would have seen us in Europe mostly, when I lost my voice, my high-pitched vocals, sometimes I would do those lows because I couldn't do anything else. And so I was kind of forced to do it. I remember at Hyperfest, 01:13:30.100 --> 01:13:34.380 I did all low vocals but it sounded cool it sounded doomy and I was like oh this is sick 01:13:35.240 --> 01:13:39.380 because it's like the slow music with the lows and I was like all right I can do this yeah 01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:44.960 so is this vocal style and self-loather something you think you're going to do in the future or you 01:13:45.080 --> 01:13:47.380 think you're going to change it up yet again for the next record 01:13:50.320 --> 01:13:57.040 honestly I don't I don't know like since the trilogy's done we're kind of open to do whatever we want 01:13:57.620 --> 01:14:26.820 And so we're just throwing around ideas right now for the next record. I have no idea. I kind of want to leave it open right now. Maybe I'll do them. Maybe not. I'm not sure. Right. Well, of the three themes on the records, tragedy, ecstasy, doom, which one do you most identify with and why? Okay. Well, I hope this isn't a cop-out, but all of them for sure. The three basic human emotions, everyone should identify with all of them. 01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:57.020 That is true. That's the idea anyway. Man, I don't know. I feel like I jump between them really quick. And so I don't know. Some days I'll feel like super excited and happy. And that's sort of the star mortar part of me, you know. And then other days I just want to like sit alone in my room and not be bothered at all. And I don't know. That's I think the reason is I tried to make each one just a different 01:14:57.040 --> 01:15:26.920 part of myself. And so it's not like, you know, this one's more of me. It's just different aspects of, of who I am. So. Right. Do you feel like a cathartic completion to doing all three of these? Good question, George. Um, so, so the main, the main time that I feel that, that catharsis, that release is when I write. So that, that was like done like a year and a half, two years ago now. But, um, yeah, 01:15:27.040 --> 01:15:56.920 So when I'm actually writing the music, writing the record, that's the biggest. I think that's, there's a, so I have a psychology degree. I did finish my degree, by the way. Good for you. Are you working at Trinity Health? Hell no. Did you get that degree in China? No, I got it at Minot State. It was, I paid out of pocket. It's cheap. Everyone gets in-state tuition. You should go there. But anyway, it's very cheap. 01:15:59.300 --> 01:16:27.020 You threw me off where I was now. The catharsis. Okay, yeah. So I have a degree in psychology. So I learned that a very healthy way to deal with any kind of like negative energy or emotions is something called sublimation. And it's just like taking all that energy and anxiety and worry or whatever it may be and turning it into something constructive or creative. So like to work on something. And so if I'm 01:16:27.060 --> 01:16:56.760 I'm ever like in that mind space. Um, the best thing for me to do is just, you know, to pick up a guitar. And I think for me, it's so easy to do now because I've been playing guitar for so long. I think it's been about 18 years since my 12th birthday when I got it. And, um, that was like second nature. It's almost like, like, it just, it just comes out. Like, I don't have to have a plan. I'm not like, Oh, I need to like write this type of song. I just pick it up and just start noodling around. 01:16:57.040 --> 01:17:26.480 And it just comes out that way. And it translates super well for me. I think that's something that I just learned slowly over time because I've had a few friends ask me, you know, how do you write something like that? How do you write something unique without just copying someone else or trying to do something else? I don't even know how to explain it other than I just pick up the guitar and I just let that mindset and that negative emotion out. That's all I'm doing. It's coming out through my fingers. 01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:56.060 I need to go from a B5 to a C sharp or something. I don't think like that at all. In every other aspect of my life, I'm super controlled and logical and analytical. But with music, I purposely made myself ignorant of that. So after those lessons for six months where I learned basic chords and scales and stuff, I just stopped learning completely on a technical end. 01:17:56.600 --> 01:18:26.380 So like, I know where all if I, if I thought in my head and you know, I had like the fifth fret, I could think, you know, and it would take me like five seconds, 10 seconds that I know what note it is. That's probably the extent of my musical theory knowledge. And the rest, I just, I just go by ear. I go by feeling and emotion. And I purposely did that just to have that like outlet that sort of, I don't know if you want to call it magic. That's kind of cheesy, but that kind of like magic in my life where it's like something that's not just, 01:18:28.500 --> 01:18:54.260 I totally understand. I write comic books and I'm the same way. I'm very structured in my life. I like planning everything out. But then when I'm actually writing creatively, it just kind of let it go. Yeah. You know, of course there's going to be structure to it. But where I come up with stories and how I, how I do it, you know, it's coming from a place of just like emotion and experience, I guess. 01:18:55.480 --> 01:19:25.400 Yeah, yeah. I think the structure and stuff is just kind of more the canvas or the tools that you're using. It's not the actual process itself. And once you have that, like, obviously, I didn't know how to play guitar. I wasn't just going to pick it up and be able to express myself through it without knowing a single chord. But it was just, you know, a big, it's kind of funny, but like this big event that happened in my life where I kind of made that decision for myself was at Minot State University where I was going. 01:19:25.480 --> 01:19:27.280 There's a battle of the bands 01:19:29.350 --> 01:19:29.980 that we played. 01:19:30.660 --> 01:19:32.020 There was this band that was coming up 01:19:32.050 --> 01:19:33.540 and they were all PhD 01:19:34.700 --> 01:19:35.580 music theory 01:19:36.340 --> 01:19:36.600 students. 01:19:38.300 --> 01:19:39.340 They were like a rock band. 01:19:39.340 --> 01:19:39.980 I don't even know 01:19:40.340 --> 01:19:40.780 what to call it. 01:19:41.200 --> 01:19:41.940 Kind of like progressive 01:19:43.070 --> 01:19:43.520 metal maybe. 01:19:44.160 --> 01:19:45.200 It was just terrible. 01:19:48.340 --> 01:19:50.040 They studied this for how many 01:19:50.320 --> 01:19:52.120 years and they know the ins 01:19:52.170 --> 01:19:52.420 and outs. 01:19:52.520 --> 01:20:22.500 they probably know like 100 times what I know about music and it just doesn't sound good and so that kind of got me thinking like maybe I don't need to like overanalyze this you know I could just I just feel like a lot of musicians don't need that I mean I think there's you you could be good either way like I'm not saying oh if you learn music you're gonna be terrible but I'm just it it sort of opened my my mind to you know you don't have to to know everything about it you can just you know have fun with it right well you know there's a 01:20:22.500 --> 01:20:26.140 It's not a science. It's a theory. 01:20:27.500 --> 01:20:29.100 We haven't figured music out. 01:20:29.250 --> 01:20:32.340 And so that's literally why it's referred to as music theory. 01:20:32.580 --> 01:20:34.540 There's just conventions we've sort of agreed on. 01:20:34.540 --> 01:20:37.760 Like, okay, well, the fifth fret will be an A or whatever it is. 01:20:38.090 --> 01:20:38.720 So there's that. 01:20:39.530 --> 01:20:44.260 Philip K. Dick wrote a great article or essay about music one time 01:20:44.650 --> 01:20:46.840 and how it's so un-understandable. 01:20:46.940 --> 01:21:16.700 I mean, like why, why should like certain minor keys make us all innately feel sad? Like what the fuck is that? Like explain that. There's not a good explanation for that. You cannot explain why that might be true. So all I mean to say is that there's, I don't think it's something you could ever truly capture anyway. And those guys that get overly, um, trained, um, it does just start to become numbers and it's a cage. Yeah. And that's a weird thing. And that's the weird thing. I mean, you know, 01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:46.660 So I, yeah, the music's fucked up, man. Like it's such a fucked up thing to try to understand. Hey, Dennis, when you're at that battle, the bands, did you just start heckling, heckling them? Like, go back to Berkeley. Everybody knows you don't belong here. I wish I would have. I didn't know. Yeah. Juilliard called. Yeah. Let's be clear. You mean Berkeley school of music? Yes. Yeah. That school has put out so many amazing and a lot of good ones. 01:21:46.940 --> 01:22:16.660 Not just the number of cruncher musicians, but so many great musicians in rock, in metal, and in jazz. That's why I made that comment. Because it would be really funny if they were out there just noodling away. Like, go back home. Go back to Berklee. You suck. Right. Well, just from talking to you, Dennis, it's clear that you wouldn't want to tell people how to feel when they listen to your music. You're open to have people interpret it the way they want. 01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:45.000 But you've completed this trilogy, right? It's a trilogy that you started that you planned long ago. How do you feel about it being out in the world? What do you hope? It's not out in the world yet. Well, that's true. When it comes out in the world. We've heard it. At the end of October. When it comes out. What do you hope people get out of like the entire trilogy? I mean, I think you already said it. 01:22:46.660 --> 01:22:46.980 I don't, 01:22:48.150 --> 01:22:48.800 how do I put it? 01:22:49.240 --> 01:22:49.480 Um, 01:22:50.220 --> 01:22:52.180 I really like strange art films. 01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:54.520 And have you heard of like Harmony Kareem? 01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:56.200 He's a director. 01:22:56.550 --> 01:22:56.660 Okay. 01:22:56.710 --> 01:22:57.900 He puts out some weird stuff. 01:22:58.220 --> 01:22:58.360 Um, 01:22:58.630 --> 01:22:59.880 like kids was a movie. 01:23:00.160 --> 01:23:00.220 Yeah. 01:23:00.350 --> 01:23:00.460 Okay. 01:23:00.940 --> 01:23:03.740 Spring breakers was like a bigger one that actually came out to theaters. 01:23:04.250 --> 01:23:04.360 Um, 01:23:04.530 --> 01:23:05.340 it's not his best work. 01:23:05.340 --> 01:23:06.060 He like gummo, 01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:07.020 um, 01:23:07.720 --> 01:23:08.620 and trash humpers. 01:23:08.740 --> 01:23:08.960 Anyway, 01:23:10.370 --> 01:23:10.500 um, 01:23:11.660 --> 01:23:12.720 sounds like our last week. 01:23:15.080 --> 01:23:42.700 Just recently. Exactly. That was like, you know, those old person masks, like prosthetics that they put on for like jackass or whatever. That whole movie is just people dressed up like that, doing fucked up stuff, including trash. It's creepy as hell. But he's a very strange guy, Harmony Green. And he got kicked off of like David Letterman because 01:23:42.740 --> 01:24:12.680 He was always on pills when he went on stage. And David Letterman said he was like going through one of the actresses purses looking for medication one time. So he's not allowed back on. But yeah, strange character, but I love his art, his films. And he said, you know, as long as somebody feels something, then, you know, I've succeeded. So like, his stuff is very hard to understand. Like, it's, it's artsy, you know, it's not like straightforward. What, what, 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:41.820 What message is supposed to come across or anything like that. And I really like that. And I agreed with him, you know, as long as you listen to a ghost bath record and you feel something, that's all I care. The only thing, yeah, I would hope that doesn't happen is somebody to, you know, put it on and be like, nah, like not, not feel one way or another about it. So like, even if it's, I remember at one show, this was in Austin, Texas, I want to say. 01:24:44.560 --> 01:25:12.620 When we're done playing, I go to the merch stand after to sell merch. Someone came up to me like, dude, that was hilarious. I was laughing the whole time. What the fuck was that? I was like, whatever. Then the next person in line literally was wiping their eyes. I was just crying through your whole set. It's so beautiful. I was like, oh, this is crazy. Just how different the same set, the same room, 01:25:12.740 --> 01:25:41.580 the same everything. Two people felt like completely different emotions. But I enjoyed both of their takes. I was fine with the guy laughing because, to be honest, when I first heard Silencer, I laughed. I'd show people. I'd be like, dude, listen to how funny this sounds. And then I started liking it slowly over time, unironically. But yeah, so for me, it's just, if you feel anything, then that's what I want. That's the answer. 01:25:41.640 --> 01:26:11.540 It's a good attitude. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love the record. I love all the records. I feel all the things. So good job. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I back in the day, I was a little skeptical. And then but with each successive album, I've been like, all right. And I got to say, I love the new album. Yeah. And I think, George, it goes back to what we talked about earlier is I'm sure you guys, your work was lumped in with other bands. And right away, you hear that. 01:26:11.660 --> 01:26:41.440 And you're like, I don't know if I want to venture that way. And that's not a bad thing. It's just that's your personal preference. I'm sure that that probably played in somewhere because there's a lot of lazy reviews and a lot of lazy reporting on stuff. But it's evident by just this interview alone, we've heard how some of that was already done just on trying to get more information about you for interviews. So yeah, stereo gum lady. And to be perfectly honest, I want to go back and read. I want to advice. I don't want to throw a stereo gum. 01:26:42.280 --> 01:27:11.180 We like you stereo gum, sorry. But I do want to go back and like re-listen now with a fresh ear because, you know, I know where it is now and I can look back where it was then and, you know, I can't tell you how many times back in the day I wrote reviews about albums and I was like, this fucking sucks. And then like five years later, I was like, this is the greatest thing ever. So if there's soft now, George, 01:27:11.340 --> 01:27:40.360 Well, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that you don't really know what you like. I mean, you do, but you don't know where you're going to be later. And you shouldn't make absolute statements about things until you really die. You're less of a dick now. I'm less of a dick. I'm counting ass now. Hey, George, come on, seriously. Don't be a dick. Thank you, Matt. You, me, and Jade should have realized this by now, being that we all grew up in the 80s. 01:27:41.080 --> 01:28:07.740 And that whole transition from the 70s rock to the 80s synth, half those bands are like, oh, this is fucking garbage. Come 20 years later, I'm like, oh my God, how did I not listen to this back in the, how did I miss this? We should know better by now. If there was ever a big switch in music, it was then, because it went from one extreme to the complete opposite overnight. Well, I'm completely blanking on the band. 01:28:11.120 --> 01:28:40.780 that I wrote a horrible scathing review of them back in like the 2000 whatevers. And I'm a huge fan of them now. The Kitty. No, the well, I'm blanking on the band. The memory of a T-stoo. Who is that? Let's just say it's a snort. Glutose snort. Glutose snort. Yeah. I used to hate Blutose snort. Now I'm like, I fucking love Blutose snort. So yeah, I, if there's one thing that I've learned, it's like, 01:28:41.120 --> 01:29:10.060 Don't make absolute statements because you don't know always what you're talking about. Right. Because sometimes when you read things, it kind of influences, you know, if you're even going to listen to an album or not. And, you know, Ghostbath is way different than some of the way that the reviews have portrayed the band. So I'm glad that I don't give a shit about that, that I just listen to stuff and just make my own judgment because, you know, it's terrific. 01:29:10.240 --> 01:29:40.180 It's the angry metal guy syndrome, right? I'll be honest. Even if I hate to review, if I see a band reviewed by them, I'm happy because that means they're getting reviewed and they have such a huge base that they play to. I disagree with almost probably 75% of their reviews, but that's good because it's making me check out other bands. We've talked about this too, though, John, is that once we get to know a writer and stuff too, sometimes we'll be like, you'll read a negative review and you're going to be like, oh, I'm totally going to fucking love this. You know what I mean? 01:29:40.260 --> 01:30:10.220 Like, there's everything about everything that this guy said that sounds negative. Which, by the way, Marcus, are you the one who's been writing the descriptions of the episodes? Yes. When we post them? Yeah. I'd like you to include some dubious fact about Dennis in this one that we didn't talk about in the episode at all. Like, we should do something like we talk about his background in raising large cats or something like that. Just throw it in there. Just to extend the mystery. Increase the mythology. Yeah. Would you like to... 01:30:10.260 --> 01:30:11.600 Contribute to your mythology. 01:30:11.920 --> 01:30:15.260 I was going to say, we talk about why he's called bloodless. 01:30:15.940 --> 01:30:16.300 Yeah. 01:30:18.820 --> 01:30:19.020 Okay. 01:30:19.340 --> 01:30:19.400 Yeah. 01:30:19.400 --> 01:30:21.680 I'll try to make, I'll do, I'll do some misinformation. 01:30:22.160 --> 01:30:23.640 He's actually from Guam. 01:30:24.440 --> 01:30:24.700 Yeah. 01:30:24.820 --> 01:30:25.800 Well, no, no, no, no. 01:30:25.900 --> 01:30:28.320 That's something that we talk about it. 01:30:28.410 --> 01:30:31.860 And then, then somebody will be forced to listen the whole three hours and be like, 01:30:31.920 --> 01:30:33.060 I'm thinking about that. 01:30:33.110 --> 01:30:34.740 But so, Jay, I have an idea. 01:30:34.870 --> 01:30:38.920 I think what I'm going to do, I'm writing the description all in Chinese. 01:30:39.500 --> 01:30:39.720 Yeah. 01:30:42.660 --> 01:31:09.780 How about that? Oh, no. Vice is coming up for us. Google Translate. Don't worry. She writes for Teen Vote now, so you're good. Oh, my God. Really? That's probably more appropriate for her. Yeah. Well, I had a couple more questions that aren't related to the album before we move on, because I know we're probably getting long. So I know that you're writing a fantasy trilogy. You've mentioned fantasy a couple times on the show. 01:31:09.820 --> 01:31:39.760 this cast. Can you talk a little bit about the series concept and what you're writing and how you started writing it? I'd also like to know who you like. I mean, you mentioned Patrick Rothfuss, so who else do you like? One question at a time, Charlie. I'm just tacking it on there. Also, your favorite color. Well, if you can just look up. Black. Don't be a dick, Matt. Sorry, I was a dick. Dick head. I'll start with you. 01:31:39.820 --> 01:32:09.760 I like Brandon Sanderson. Yeah. The way of Kings is awesome. Um, I just got the, uh, leatherback edition. He did for Kickstarter. That went really well. Um, David Lynch. He did, um, some good notes. Like NK Jemisin. Oh, she's great. Yeah. Um, every time I read like a good book, it like changes how I want to do mine. So I like, ah, should I read this? 01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:39.780 this other book now because then I'm going to want to change everything about my own because I'm like this is so good I want to do something like this and you know I mean for my own it started when I so I guess this is how I do everything you know when I first heard Aglock I started Ghostbath when I first read the name of the wind I'm like I gotta write a fantasy novel and so I've been writing man for 13 14 years now and I think I'm finally starting to get 01:32:39.780 --> 01:33:07.820 to somewhere decent. It's way harder for me than music was. I'm not sure if that's just for me personally or it's because the craft's really hard because it's just a completely different art form. It doesn't translate. Me knowing music has nothing to do with me trying to write something and convey something to a reader where you kind of want to tell them what they're supposed to feel instead of in my music I don't want to. 01:33:09.560 --> 01:33:39.440 Oh man, it's just, I wanted to, you know, write that big epic fantasy novel. And, and, you know, I, I, it started with a bunch of different ideas and you kind of narrow it down and narrow it down as you go. And right now it's, it's kind of a mess. Like I wrote all three books, the first draft, which is, you know, a first draft is nowhere near complete. And I went back to start editing it. And I noticed, you know, after reading more, 01:33:39.560 --> 01:34:09.540 reading makes you a better writer and now reading back my prose i'm like wow this sounds like more beautiful and that's that's one of the main things i like about patrick roth this is the words are beautiful the way it flows is beautiful like it's almost like poetry in a way just the way he describes things i really like that aspect of it so that's what i focused on mostly uh super zoomed in like sentence level type stuff where i'm like all right if i choose this word it's going to sound this way and and stuff that you know when you're reading it you're not exactly going to be thinking 01:34:09.580 --> 01:34:39.540 about as a reader. But for me, it'll kind of, you know, people just say, oh, this sounds good. Like this just, you know, reads good. And I went to a few writing groups in Minot. And yeah, they said, you know, this is written very well. And once they got to that point, I was like, okay, now I can move on to zoom out a little bit to like the story level and character level. And man, I haven't, so I just, like I said, I just moved to 01:34:39.580 --> 01:35:05.620 And so I haven't written in a long time and I haven't thought about the world in a long time. I kind of wanted to come back to it with fresh eyes and go back through it. I mean, there's magic, but I don't know. It's just like, what's the theme? If you could boil it down. Honestly, I don't even remember. 01:35:09.560 --> 01:35:38.440 It started with this guild of people. The basic idea, and the reason why I'm so hesitant right now is I might change it. But anyway, it doesn't matter. I might change it. But a guild of people who think they're doing good, and they're kind of mercenaries. They're supposed to be killing, you know. People have done terrible crimes, bad things. They think they're like heroes, almost, like hidden heroes. They're not working for the king or anything. 01:35:39.580 --> 01:36:05.120 They find out that everything they've been doing was actually bad. Like, they're the bad guys. All of a sudden, they're like, oh, shit, type moment. And that's kind of like the best I can sum it up. I mean, yeah. Like I said, it's a mess right now, so that's kind of the central thing. And then they work towards making it right. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, trying to work towards redemption. Yeah, in a way. Not unlike this podcast, by the way. 01:36:07.140 --> 01:36:36.700 It's really Jay. Because Jay hasn't been on the podcast in two episodes, so he's got to make it right with us. We always find out we're doing the wrong thing. I want to nerd out with you about fantasy stuff. You like Sanderson, so presumably you've read Robert Jordan. I read four chapters of the first book, and then I lost it on tour. Our merch guy misplaced it, so I haven't read through those yet. I'm sorry. 01:36:37.140 --> 01:37:06.000 I know. I know. I know. I know he's a big one. All right. Well, all those questions are gone now. Yeah. I'm sorry. Cut down at the knees. Next question. No further questions. You're going to say something, actually. Oh, yeah. And then one of the mechanics that I just remembered that I really liked that I figured out a little bit later on is, you know, you always want like a magic system that's interesting. A lot of people, and that's what Brandon Sanderson does a lot. He like creates a cool magic system. 01:37:06.440 --> 01:37:36.040 And so I was like, how could I fit something interesting as a magic system? Like people have done like, you know, oh, blood magic or you have to pay in some kind of way. And so my, my magic is paid with, um, it's really dark. It's paid with suffering. So the more you suffer, the stronger you can get. So, yeah. Yep. Awesome. That sounds great. Yeah. I don't like this podcast. Jay, do you like this podcast at all? 01:37:36.420 --> 01:37:37.920 Seriously. No. 01:37:38.940 --> 01:37:40.360 I feel like it's my job. 01:37:42.100 --> 01:37:42.360 You know. 01:37:42.780 --> 01:37:43.680 He's got to J everything. 01:37:44.640 --> 01:37:46.480 Knock us all down in a few minutes. 01:37:46.860 --> 01:37:47.680 J's the variety. 01:37:52.020 --> 01:37:53.820 I like that even more. 01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:59.320 I sent you the end of the interview question with the three albums. 01:38:00.200 --> 01:38:01.300 But I had one more question. 01:38:01.900 --> 01:38:03.000 And it has to do with fantasy. 01:38:03.780 --> 01:38:04.460 And it is. 01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:34.260 If you could live in any fantasy realm from a novel, movie, or television series, which one would you choose and why? Ooh, okay. Well, a big problem is I like grimdark, and I would not want to live in any of those kinds of areas. I like suffering. Yeah, yeah. I like darker books, and those worlds are usually really messed up, and I wouldn't want to live there. Let me think. 01:38:34.300 --> 01:38:35.520 I would say, 01:38:37.430 --> 01:38:38.640 this might sound really lame, 01:38:39.020 --> 01:38:40.760 but probably Pokemon. 01:38:44.080 --> 01:38:44.960 I know. 01:38:45.090 --> 01:38:45.400 I know. 01:38:46.180 --> 01:38:48.000 That's going in the episode description. 01:38:48.680 --> 01:38:48.980 Yes. 01:38:50.120 --> 01:38:50.340 Well, 01:38:50.380 --> 01:38:51.140 if you think about it, 01:38:51.820 --> 01:38:53.700 most of the fantasy novels happening, 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:54.000 you know, 01:38:54.100 --> 01:38:57.600 medieval times and things were not super great back then for everyone. 01:38:57.740 --> 01:38:57.960 So I don't, 01:38:57.960 --> 01:39:00.680 I don't really think I'd want to live in any of those honestly. 01:39:01.160 --> 01:39:03.180 And so like Pokemon is modern day. 01:39:03.280 --> 01:39:32.980 We got all the medicine, you know, we're good. And then I think it's because I grew up with it. Like I was like the perfect age when it came out. And so it was like, you know, you get your own monster. You don't battle yourself. You're not swinging a sword. You're not going to get hurt. It's your like little friend that you're with. I don't know. Well, that's pretty good. Didn't expect that one. There we go. I was like, Oh, is it going to be Lord of the Rings? We all have time. No, it's Pokemon. Something fluffy. Fantastic. 01:39:35.239 --> 01:40:03.220 Yeah, that's not suffering at all. So I sent you the itinerary, and it's this question we always ask at the end of each interview, and that's what three albums would help people better understand you as a person? All right. Well, I would say number one, just because it's the reason I'm in this band, 01:40:03.260 --> 01:40:33.220 And the reason I'm making music again would be Agalox, Mero of the Spirit. I've already discussed it. It was an album. I went to my local record shop and I picked it up on a whim. I didn't know the band at all. I could barely, because like the way the record is, the logo is kind of etched into the front. It didn't really have a logo on it. I just really liked how the art looked and I just picked it up completely blindly. And I was with my friend at the time. He was a really big metalhead. He loves black metal. 01:40:33.300 --> 01:41:01.860 And I just popped it in the car. And it starts with nature sounds and then a cello piece. And I was like, whoa, this is really beautiful. And then all of a sudden there's a 30-second drum solo into the first song and then it goes straight to blast beats with some pretty sounding chords behind it and melody. I was like, whoa. And it just blew my mind. We sat there. It's a long second song. It's like eight, nine minutes at least. 01:41:02.200 --> 01:41:31.500 And we just sat in the parking lot and just like listen through the whole thing. I just remember like getting chills through the whole song. I was like, whoa, like the melodies hidden and the part changes. I was like, this is amazing. So yeah, that's my first choice. Do you guys know that album? Oh yeah, of course. Very much. We know all the metal. Okay. We know all the Braggalock too, considering their previous albums. All your metal are belong to us. Yeah. It's not like their biggest. No, whatever. Yeah. 01:41:32.160 --> 01:41:38.160 pretty aggressive considering what they had done from the mantle on you know so that's true john yeah and i know 01:41:38.280 --> 01:42:02.140 it's all recorded analog so it has like a way different feel too yeah um and i really liked that sound on it too so um yeah so that's number one um describe me as a person i didn't prepare this by the way i just like doing things on the fly um that's cool and it can be your own albums that you've done but uh it can be an album like like agaloc that really influenced you that uh 01:42:02.140 --> 01:42:04.300 to you, but it can also be albums that you've worked on. 01:42:05.160 --> 01:42:09.900 Okay. Number two, again, just coming out of the blue, but it's a Vaporwave album. 01:42:10.460 --> 01:42:21.340 I run a Vaporwave record label. That's my main job now. And it's called I'll Try Living Like This by the band Death's Dynamic Shroud.WMV. 01:42:24.300 --> 01:42:31.180 So previous to listening to that record, I always thought Vaporwave was just this like mall music, 01:42:32.220 --> 01:43:01.420 Nostalgic feeling like that's what most like most people know it as like the biggest vaporwave records Macintosh plus I don't know if you've heard that it's called floral shop that's like a pink cover with a Greek bust on it um and it's all like retro sounding music but not like retro wave where it's synthy it's more like sampled music of like 80s artists slowed down it's just really weird sounding so previously I just thought you know vaporwave is this um sort of shallow sampled 01:43:01.480 --> 01:43:30.600 And that album, I'll Try Living Like This, is like a piece of art. It makes you feel emotions. It's kind of depressive sounding. It's really crazy and all over the place, but all the sounds work together to create something new. And yeah, it just opened my eyes. Vaporwave can be used as a medium to make really cool stuff too, not just retro sounding mall music. So that really had a big influence on me. 01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:57.980 And once I heard that one, that's when I started the label. So that was a big record for me. I would say check it out and just give it a little bit. It's going to be one of those things where you're like, what the fuck is this? Right when you hear it. But I've noticed most of the music I really like is a slow burn type growing on me. Same with my fantasy novels. It's really thick. And at first, it's nothing going on and just slowly gets better and better. 01:44:00.660 --> 01:44:02.300 Don and I are really into that dark ambient 01:44:03.080 --> 01:44:04.300 and spacey ambient music. 01:44:04.580 --> 01:44:05.580 So I like it. 01:44:05.800 --> 01:44:06.760 Yeah, it has a little bit of that. 01:44:07.120 --> 01:44:10.180 Yeah, it's I probably wouldn't call this one ambient. 01:44:11.640 --> 01:44:16.780 But yeah, a lot of vaporwave uses ambient ambient music as an influence too. 01:44:17.760 --> 01:44:20.660 Okay, so that's two of them that really big impact on me. 01:44:22.160 --> 01:44:23.920 I'm trying to think of a third. 01:44:24.800 --> 01:44:29.180 You know, honestly, I just say just because it's my favorite band overall, 01:44:29.280 --> 01:44:55.260 probably would be Toxicity by System of a Down. They're just one of the only bands I can listen to at any time and just enjoy it. And I know every word to every album they've ever put out. And I always get called Surge, you know, when I'm out and about. Sometimes people are like, oh, it's the lead singer of System of a Down. Look at him. 01:44:57.780 --> 01:45:26.740 That or when I shave my beard, it was Frank Zappa. Because my hair is kind of curly and out there, so I kind of look like them. Yeah, I don't know. I think they just have such a unique take that no one sounds like System of a Down in my mind. And it's all just great stuff. Every part, the drums, the riffs, the melodies, and the harmonies are so different. And it's just, I don't know, I love them. And I managed to see them live. I don't get to go to a lot of concerts because I'm in North Dakota. 01:45:27.160 --> 01:45:56.760 and nothing comes through there. But my friend and I drove down to Chicago for Chicago open air right before the pandemic started and it almost got rained out and most of the bands got rained out and they couldn't play. But then System of a Down went on and they got to play extra long. So it actually worked out really well for me. Right. I thought you were in Pennsylvania. I'm confused now. I am now. You're throwing curveballs. Next week, I'll be somewhere else. He moved actually, Marcus, on during the episode. 01:45:57.500 --> 01:46:25.960 I thought I saw him. Now he's in Guam. This is a blue screen. We've gone so long that at some point he'll be here with me in the room in about two hours. Oh my god. You know, I don't think we have a lot of system down people on the podcast. I'm pretty sure that I am. I like them. I love them. I'm going to see them in two weeks for the first time and I can't fucking wait. They're playing? I didn't realize they were speaking. 01:46:27.040 --> 01:46:57.000 No, I don't know why you think that, Jay, because I mean, I'd like them. Matt seems like he did them too. Yeah, I like them. I raised it as one of my post 2000 best favorite albums and I've never been made fun of, but we'll just leave that aside. Dude, I'm actually working on a cover of Lonely Day because that fucking song rocks. I just think they are. I agree. You know, I will even say this, like a lot of people would say, I think they are have a better track record and I know they're different bands, but I think of them as the two big kind of hard rockers. 01:46:58.400 --> 01:47:26.000 I think they have a better track record than Tool at this point. I think System of a Down has a richer catalog than Tool and I like Tool. So and as far as like liking the more front-facing bands. Anyway, I'm glad you brought them up because I can't wait to see them. I'm seeing them two weeks. I'm so excited. Yeah, thanks for that, Dennis. Those are some interesting, good picks, different ones. You're listening to the Mental Heads podcast and if you don't listen, then the hell with you. Let's move on to t-shirt and beer check. 01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:56.340 Dennis, what is on your shirt currently? What was on your shirt previously? And what are you drinking? Well, I don't want to, you know, it was one of those situations where you show up to a party and you're wearing the exact same thing as someone else. And you, you feel awkward. And since I'm at home and I can change, I went ahead and changed. But right now I have my tribulation shirt on. You and Jay are best friends now. Yeah. I love the design on this one. I was Nosferatu. And there's a reason I picked this one when I changed. 01:47:56.440 --> 01:48:26.260 And it's because I knew I needed to like grab some drinks for tonight. And so I found this, it's called Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA. Oh yeah. From Great Lakes. Great Lakes. Oh yeah. In Cleveland. That's out of Ohio. Yep. That comes out of October. It's awesome. Yeah. It's pretty good. I've never had that one. Yeah, it's good. You know, that reminds me of a question I didn't ask you during the interview. Because you said you knew you needed drinks because apparently you've, 01:48:26.420 --> 01:48:27.500 heard us before. 01:48:28.940 --> 01:48:29.060 Maybe. 01:48:29.360 --> 01:48:29.460 Yeah. 01:48:29.580 --> 01:48:29.640 Yeah. 01:48:29.840 --> 01:48:33.420 Markisan said that you have listened to us and I was curious about that. 01:48:33.580 --> 01:48:33.660 Like, 01:48:33.660 --> 01:48:34.780 how did you find us? 01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:36.540 And why would you listen to us? 01:48:39.360 --> 01:48:39.760 Well, 01:48:40.060 --> 01:48:40.260 okay. 01:48:40.380 --> 01:48:44.520 I didn't say I was wearing a blood incantation shirt before. 01:48:44.900 --> 01:48:45.940 I didn't mention that. 01:48:45.940 --> 01:48:46.200 I said, 01:48:46.620 --> 01:48:46.820 um, 01:48:47.320 --> 01:48:49.080 and multiple people were wearing it. 01:48:49.080 --> 01:48:50.000 So I changed to this one. 01:48:51.200 --> 01:48:51.280 Right. 01:48:51.440 --> 01:48:51.780 Well, 01:48:51.840 --> 01:48:52.440 alert. 01:48:52.740 --> 01:48:53.120 Jeez. 01:48:56.160 --> 01:49:21.940 There was a difference in sleeve length. Sleeve different colors. You can describe that. You can describe that at length, Matt. Speaking of length. I listened to the podcast. I was a pizza delivery driver for a long time in North Dakota. And so, I mean, greatest job ever. I could just listen to any album while I work and while I was delivering pizza in my car. And then I listened to a ton of podcasts. 01:49:22.760 --> 01:49:51.980 And I think I just typed in like metal podcast and then I clicked on podcast on iTunes and that's how I found you guys. So I think you typed in cool metal. Yeah. Best metal podcast. Best metal podcast. Top rated. I saw, yeah, so I found you guys and I was like, oh, these are like really long. So it like worked for like, you know. Some men are longer than others. Do I watch Lawrence of Arabia or do I listen to this podcast? 01:49:52.740 --> 01:50:22.260 Yeah. Both. And then I always had an eight hour drive from Minot to Minneapolis when I lived over there to go practice with the band or record or whatever. And so. So you fit an episode in for each drive then. Exactly. I could listen to one episode and I'd be there. Yeah. So you needed two for the trip, one to get back home. So how, just how familiar are you with us? Like, is, if you listen to like two or three episodes, are you like, you know, invested? Um, I, I, I stopped delivering pizza. 01:50:22.760 --> 01:50:51.020 I stopped listening to podcasts. That's fair. I've done the same thing. But when I was listening to them, I'd probably listen to five full episodes. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. That Stone, is it Stone Healer? Yeah, yeah. That's one. Yeah, I found that album too. It's a really, really cool album. And you still came on anyway. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, you knew. That's the best part because you know it's going to be five hours. 01:50:52.760 --> 01:51:22.400 totally up for the full podcast from the beginning. The full podcast experience. The FPE. Yes. All right. Well, thank you. All right. Well, Markisan what are you wearing? What are you drinking? All right. I'm wearing my new emulation dawn of possession shirt from the decibel show. It's the 30th anniversary shirt. It's pretty interesting because I as soon as they had it on Sunday when they performed, 01:51:22.740 --> 01:51:52.100 I think Immolation put on the best performance of the whole fest that I saw. And they were the ones I most look forward to seeing because I had never seen them. But I tried to get like a different shirts. They had they didn't have extra large in any of the other shirts. And I was like, I guess I'll get this one because it has their their logo on it. The other ones just had like the font, which I hate. Yeah. And then I found out later this is the special shirt that they made just for the 30th anniversary, which is what Brimminghorn did a mead for. 01:51:54.640 --> 01:52:21.560 And I'm like, well, I'm glad I got the shirt now because it's the 30th anniversary shirt and I wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. I do not have the Brimminghorn Mead to help celebrate the 30th anniversary, but I do have a Brimminghorn Mead. That's a good one. And it is a black raspberry piment, honey grape wine. It's pretty good. I'm not, I'm not always a big fan of the berries, but again, Brimminghorn. That one's pretty good though. They always do a good job with all their meads, even if it's berries. 01:52:21.660 --> 01:52:51.280 This is the third thing I've been on. I drank. Yeah. Indian Garter, which is the infamous one where I always get slashed. Which number? Number four. That's good, too. Yes. And then I also had, from the Decibel Fest, local to Philadelphia, Neshaminy Creek, Punkless Dunkle. I had a couple of these left. I was like, fuck, I don't know if I can put these in my suitcase. 01:52:51.660 --> 01:53:18.320 I managed to get them in there. And this is definitely one of the better pumpkin beers. I feel like pumpkin beers are really hit or miss. Mostly miss. Mostly miss. Yeah. Yes. This one is really well balanced. 8.8% alcohol. So it's, it hits you and just delicious. I would get again, I've, I've liked everything that I've had from this Nashamini Creek, which was like maybe four different beers while I was out there. Yeah. Pretty good. There you go. Hey, if you like, uh, 01:53:21.660 --> 01:53:22.600 I show on coming out soon. 01:53:24.240 --> 01:53:24.520 What? 01:53:25.600 --> 01:53:26.040 Nice. 01:53:26.640 --> 01:53:27.900 Well, we're friends with Remy Horne. 01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:29.320 We've been on the podcast before. 01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:32.340 And I actually, because like I mentioned, I wrote comics. 01:53:32.550 --> 01:53:35.560 They actually did a meet with me for my comic book. 01:53:36.280 --> 01:53:37.060 So that's sold out. 01:53:37.110 --> 01:53:38.340 So hopefully we're going to do another one. 01:53:38.520 --> 01:53:39.740 But I'm looking forward to yours. 01:53:40.260 --> 01:53:40.540 All right. 01:53:41.620 --> 01:53:41.980 Who's next? 01:53:42.220 --> 01:53:42.340 Matt? 01:53:42.460 --> 01:53:42.900 Matt. 01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:43.400 Oh, yeah. 01:53:43.590 --> 01:53:46.160 So as mentioned, Blood Incantation. 01:53:46.580 --> 01:53:49.360 Hidden History of the Human Race. 01:53:50.080 --> 01:53:50.860 Long Sleeve. 01:53:52.220 --> 01:54:20.900 And from Decibel Fest, because I didn't have my size in the short sleeve, I'm drinking. I started the night with a dry hopped Imperial Pilsner from Barrel and Flow. It's a 10.4% Pilsner, which is not usual. Not insignificant. Yeah, not bad at all. And right now I'm drinking A Seat at the Table, which is a Belgian-style table beer by... 01:54:20.940 --> 01:54:26.600 and whiskey hill brewing company out of westmont illinois which is really good that's all i know 01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:35.300 matt you have me a belgian exactly i hate pilsners but i mean 10.4 percent i might give that a shot 01:54:35.820 --> 01:54:41.580 beer is beer man come on so we'll try anything here's the thing i live by brew metal will who told me 01:54:41.740 --> 01:54:46.360 like if you want to know about a brewery yeah drink their pilsner because it's the hardest beer to brew 01:54:46.360 --> 01:55:15.720 So I've gained an appreciation. But to your point, Marcus, when I got one that was double dry hopped and 10%, which is completely outside the realm of a pilsner, I was like, right, I'm listening. I'm listening. Remember when we had that double dry hopped Pliny? Oh, that was good. Yeah, that started out as, oh, let's go have a beer. And before you know, it's like, what are you gonna have for your fourth round? Just keep the Russian river flowing. Yeah, baby. So happy. 01:55:15.840 --> 01:55:45.800 All right. Well, John. So I went on a limb here and I wore a blood incantation shirt. And it's a short sleeve and it's the hidden history of the human race that I got a decibel. And I got the last double X. So I was happy. All right. So beer number one might have been during the seven o'clock hour. It's dissolver. I think it's the name of the brewery and it's called Thank You for Existing. And it's got a happy little 01:55:48.440 --> 01:56:15.380 I'm just here to take your spleen. You know, one of those things. All right. Beer number two. Somewhere in our number two. Bad Boy from Imperial IPA from Alpine. Hey, look. I'm just showing these guys my beers. And then we just started the third beer here. So we went Kohl's, double IPA. Now we're drinking a Fess beer from Tushir from Germany. It's a Fess beer. 01:56:16.680 --> 01:56:45.800 which if you don't know what that means you know it's like an october fest beer it's a lager or a lager but i i'm been like matt said i've been drinking more lagers and kolsch's not because i like them more but because uh they're in the refrigerator no i actually bought these jen bought the the fest beer i bought this thank you for existence happy alien one just because i need to mix it up i can't drink full on bombers of stouts anymore because i get stupid and 01:56:46.200 --> 01:57:13.960 I don't want to be a dick, Matt. Right. This is bitchy Matt from the podcast. Don't be a dick. That's what I was hoping for. George clipped that shit. Anyway, I want that to be one of those NBC things like the more you know. Don't be a dick. Don't be a dick. That's all I got. And I got water after that. All right. The sure beer combo like I did too, though. You got the alien. Yeah. 01:57:16.540 --> 01:57:45.260 This alien though is just slightly happier than the other alien on the street, which is a famous... That one's a coal, she said? Yes. Dennis is really into themes. Yeah, I didn't even plan that. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, I was in Cologne and one of the fans took us to get coal. She was in those tiny glasses. I don't know, that's how they drink them and you're just supposed to like down them. Yeah, yeah, like that. I like them. Well, it looks tiny in my massive hand, right? 01:57:45.820 --> 01:58:15.520 That goes back to earlier. I mean, you're a massive man. You're just so big. How tall are you, John? You're like 6'5"? No. I wish. 2, 6'3", somewhere up there. You're so tall. I was like, what's going on? So as you get older, you start to, your body frame starts shrinking a little bit. So I'm like 6'2 1⁄2 now. I used to be 6'3 1⁄2. Really? Okay. It happens. Your hips, your back gets fucked up. 01:58:15.560 --> 01:58:45.000 Your body starts crinkling a little. I'm just short, I guess. I'm over six feet. That's all you need to know. Yeah, yeah. I'm pissed because I'm like a quarter inch shy of six foot. I'm like, I've always never measured. But you're not. I'm like almost, almost cool. Almost there. But not there. But not. No, I just impacted on the side. Yeah. Star Wars reference. Dennis, how tall are you? I'm six foot even. I'm like one of the shorter. So you're a quarter inch taller than me. God damn it. 01:58:45.560 --> 01:59:12.900 The other guys in the band are taller than you. Oh, yeah. I'm like, when asked. What sounds like Scalder? Remember, George? We saw that. It's like, hey, we know that guy. He's a bro. Those Scalder guys are super nice. Oh, yeah. He's like seven foot nine. Yeah. It's not that tall, but it felt like that way. I was looking up. I am proud of saying I am five, eleven and three quarters. 01:59:17.140 --> 01:59:45.180 Jay, what do you got? Blue bottle iced coffee as is my post-dinner thing and Screaming for Vengeance t-shirt. Oh. Hey, Jay, does your shirt say 30th anniversary edition on it too, like the album cover? No. This is like, you know, the whole distressed thing. It's distressed. Yeah, but that's the 30th anniversary cover. Oh, yeah. Which pisses me off because I like those color combinations better and it just says 30th anniversary right across the cover. 01:59:45.560 --> 02:00:15.520 Fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. And this is somewhat. Well, I was there and I put it on, but it's somewhat in mourning for the show. I will not be seen on Tuesday. Yeah, no. It sucks. So that's life. All right. Charge. So I am wearing my new Decibel Metal and Beer Fest shirt that I got last weekend. It's Bathory on the front, Manowar on the back. It's a, it's 02:00:15.560 --> 02:00:45.340 It's the Decibel Death to False Beer Fest shirt. So on the front, we've got the classic Baphomet pentagram, which is like Bathory-esque. And on the back, we have Man of War Death to False Beer Fest. Turn around Vogue for us, George. Come on. I don't know if you... Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Jesus Christ, George. Come on. Work it. There we go. Oh, yeah. Wow. That's bigger than I thought it was. 02:00:46.580 --> 02:01:14.300 That's what they all say. When I see your shirt, I keep thinking of Venom for some reason. Well, yeah, that too. Like, welcome to hell, right? Welcome to hell, yeah. Wait, can I ask what's behind you? Is that like a... That is a... No, actually it's a... What do you call it? The projector screen that has never been used since I've lived here because I turned the projector room into a podcast studio. Oh, wait. Weird thought. 02:01:15.540 --> 02:01:45.520 come up for the year end we don't know if we're doing it yet but if we do we should have like everyone on the projector screen well i don't have a projector is the thing it's like i have one i'll recommend it to you to the left side i have like a giant bass amp and a guitar amp but on the other side of the monitor here i have a drum kit man i would love to come out there for year and i would love to have all of us there for for year and one one one time at least come out for the chicken alone 02:01:45.540 --> 02:02:15.440 Yeah. The chicken shows up and all the shit breaks loose. That's right. We have a, there's a, George has a rubber chicken doll that's kind of like the unofficial mascot. It's from Manoa. Once the chicken breaks up. Moana, Moana, sorry. That's when you know somebody who's sitting there is fucked up because the chicken starts getting squeezed a lot. That somebody would be Will who's not here. Well, I don't know. I'm here and I'm squeezing the chicken. So what's that say? Yeah. Okay. 02:02:15.540 --> 02:02:44.420 So I started Brimminghorn Golden Tears. Oh yeah. That's good. Moved on to what, Markisan? Oh, Hanakoa, the George. Provided to me last week in Philadelphia by Markisan. Hey George, do you still have one of those left? Yes, I do. You should drive down to D.C. and have that in the hotel called the George. 02:02:45.560 --> 02:03:13.860 So Dennis, so I live in Hawaii. I live in Honolulu. So I brought three of those beers. It's called the George. So George had to have that beer. And it's like, what, 11% like Imperial Stout, something like that, George? Yeah. It's really good. It is really good. And then, so as one of the only people that drove to Decibel, we were the recipient of leftover beers that people could not fly with. Oh, yes. 02:03:14.300 --> 02:03:42.200 And so I am now working on Hammerheart's Rivas. Nice. Oh, nice. Provided by Matt and or Eric. Don't be a dick. That was me. Don't be a dick. That's interesting. I may have had that in a room with a couple of naked guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I did too. I'm pretty sure that's when I had that. It's an Imperial Hazy IPA. At the very least sleeveless. But yeah, Hammerheart, gotta love them. 02:03:44.280 --> 02:04:14.260 All right, fine. A couple of guys in Speedos. You happy? Hey, do you need a chair? Let me get a chair for you. I was giving more credibility, but if you want to go there, Speedos. You want some pretzels and rummings? Yep. Baywatch and beers. Got it. Baywatch and beers. Did we conclude that there was a cooking show in the background? I believe it was, yeah. Yeah, you were watching Daughters, Drivers and Daughters. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm pretty sure that's all we had on. I watched it with you guys for a while. I'm glad I replaced it with Jay. Yeah, you did a fabulous job. All right. All right, so let's move on. 02:04:14.340 --> 02:04:14.880 Let's do it. 02:04:14.880 --> 02:04:15.620 Roll for this news. 02:04:15.960 --> 02:04:16.260 News. 02:04:29.960 --> 02:04:32.400 So the first item actually kind of sucks. 02:04:33.000 --> 02:04:37.060 It's not as happy as we were a moment ago, but Judas Priest has proposed. 02:04:40.000 --> 02:04:40.480 Okay. 02:04:40.480 --> 02:04:41.340 I guess it is funny. 02:04:42.060 --> 02:05:12.020 Judas Priest has postponed all upcoming shows as Richie Faulkner has major emergency heart surgery due to a heart attack. Yeah. What the hell? He's the youngest guy in the band and what the hell? 41 years old. Yeah. That's younger than us. Maybe not younger than Dennis, but younger than us. Yeah. We just hope it gets better and they can get back on tour at some point. I know they're reaching their end because 02:05:12.060 --> 02:05:41.840 It's like their 52nd or 53rd at this point. Just such a bummer. Keeps getting postponed. Yeah. I mean, he's resting and recovering. That's good news. I mean, he's got a one-year-old daughter. So it's a really big relief that the surgery went well and then he's resting. And we don't know why. We don't know what happened. You know what? Yeah. Oh, we heard that? Yeah. Some people during the show and finished the show. Damn. Wow. 02:05:42.600 --> 02:06:10.780 Some people are just predisposed to some of this stuff. They could be in great shape and it's there in their DNA. All the best to Richie, honestly. I'm a fan of his. I like him in the band, to be honest with you. I think he's a great player. He's an awesome player and I'm convinced he's responsible for a lot of the riffs on the last two records. I could not agree more. 02:06:12.040 --> 02:06:39.380 If you really want to appreciate what that guy can do, just as far as a fucking kick-you-in-the-balls riff, go listen to a song called Sword of Damocles off of Redeemer of Souls. Fuck, it's so good. Biggest, hugest fucking black dog, metalized riff. Blah, blah, blah. He's great, and he's also, I think, a very nice man. He puts a lot of cool videos up on his channel or whatever it is, and him talking about priests and playing his guitars, it's just generally seeming like a nice fucking guy. 02:06:39.400 --> 02:07:09.340 Speaking of that, did you hear anyone not say that about him? That commented on him? Everyone said the nicest guy in the business. Yeah. Which, weird fact, he's also married to George Lynch's daughter. That would be his child's grandfather, George Lynch. In any case, and I already mentioned this once, but I still want to throw out it again. I was so looking forward to seeing them because Rob's 70 now, and every time you see him could be your last time you see him. And I'm telling you, man, the videos out there right now, that people are posting from these shows, 02:07:09.400 --> 02:07:12.740 He sounded great last tour also 02:07:13.400 --> 02:07:13.860 He did 02:07:14.120 --> 02:07:15.820 He sounds better now 02:07:17.280 --> 02:07:18.120 In any case 02:07:19.040 --> 02:07:20.940 That's all of course making it about me 02:07:21.100 --> 02:07:22.320 Let's just hope he recovers well 02:07:23.240 --> 02:07:24.700 I'd say he's got a long road ahead of him 02:07:24.900 --> 02:07:25.920 If he was a 10 hour surgery 02:07:26.340 --> 02:07:28.040 He's not doing anything for the next 4-6 months 02:07:30.020 --> 02:07:31.220 My only knock on him 02:07:31.240 --> 02:07:33.140 Is he hasn't been in the band as long as 02:07:33.300 --> 02:07:33.720 Scott Travis 02:07:37.500 --> 02:07:39.360 He's in his 60s now by the way 02:07:39.540 --> 02:08:06.500 That's crazy. I'm telling you right now, the last man standing, Jay, who is it? Charlie Watts. No, he's dead. Ian Hill. Come on. He's been here for 40 years. Yeah. Well, he's saving up his heartbeats and joints, apparently. By that, I mean the joints in his knees. And he may come up again. He's like he's the guy who quit smoking a long time ago because you realize he saved years on his life. I'll stay back here quietly and just cash my checks. Thank you. 02:08:09.400 --> 02:08:39.200 Next up, just a, I don't know, a pointer. Niall has signed with Napalm Records and they're announcing a 2022 tour. I was kind of hoping for a new Niall album, but you know. Hold on here. I did post this in a thread, but you guys were in Philly when I did. Did you see the other tour on With? Yeah, yeah. That's going to be a fucking wicked tour, dude. Favorite. I saw him on the last tour because I really like filing a lot of rights and they were great. 02:08:39.380 --> 02:09:09.340 They're fucking great to see. So to see them with Incantation be that much better. We saw them, John, with Swallow the Sun and Overkill. It was now Overkill, Swallow the Sun, and Amorphous. Amorphous. Yeah, yeah. It was a collision tour. Sweet tour, man. Well, it was Amorphous and Swallow the Sun were touring together and Overkill and now we're together. They just happened to be in D.C. at the same time, so they joined 02:09:09.380 --> 02:09:38.820 It did like a little mini fest for us. That was awesome. But also congratulations to them for getting on the label that I think. Oh, yeah. And also that last record was to me a revitalized. Oh, yeah. I'm so happy they're on this. They got this major record deal because their last on was fire and they deserve a label that can keep the spotlight on them because we've talked about this before on the podcast, but I feel like some of these old legendary bands, they don't always get their due, even though they're. 02:09:39.480 --> 02:10:08.480 They're blowing some of these new bands out of the water with their material. And I thought the last Nile record was just, you know, one of the best death metal records. So, and then going on tour with Incantation, which was, that was our number one album, wasn't it last year? Yeah. And I think Nile was Georgia's number one record. I think that was. I mean, they're two of the best death metal bands of all time and they're going to be eviscerating the entire United States. But you know what I want. They have an Oakland show. I looked at the dates and there's something in my area. Oh, Berkeley. They're playing in Berkeley, actually. 02:10:08.840 --> 02:10:38.520 I want Dallas's band Narcotic Wasteland to put on a new album. That's been a long time. It's been a few years, but that last one, man, I loved it. I love it. So come on, Dallas, new album. Dennis, are you into death metal at all? Yeah, I more recently got into more death metal. I think I named a few earlier that I was listening to, like Two Mold, Blood and Citation. 02:10:40.800 --> 02:11:08.760 We love those bands. Cannibal Corpse, obviously. Obby. Incantation is my favorite. Go and listen to it. Yes. I will. I haven't listened to them, but I will. It's sort of a thing where it's a new genre for me, so I'm just like, there's so much to check out. There's so many to choose from. You can't do much better than starting with Niall, though, or Incantation. 02:11:08.820 --> 02:11:38.780 No, because they're like, I mean, they're at the forefront of that movement for, yeah. But some of the ghost bath stuff kind of reminds me of death metal, the vocals. You got a little bit of death metal in there for sure. And that new record. Yeah. I was trying to do that. Yep. Next up back to Judas Priest should have ordered this differently. Yes. Ian Hill says that it's not like he could, it just stays there. He doesn't. 02:11:38.840 --> 02:12:08.600 move. So it's okay. We're no matter where you are. Ian Hill from Judas Priest says he doesn't think that new Judas Priest will arrive before 2023. Now I am assuming this was released before Richie's prognosis. Oh yeah it was. Yeah. So they wanted to let the dust settle from their 50th anniversary tour. Yeah. Which we know now. Which is never going to end. Yeah. But maybe they might because of Richie's got this heart surgery they may rethink this and they might put out the album sooner and then resume the tour. 02:12:08.820 --> 02:12:38.100 It would be easier for him. I would think a few months he'll be much more ready to record than he will be going on the road. It's been written. I had somewhere along the lines convinced myself that they'd already done some of the stuff in the studio. I thought I heard that, Jay, that they had some stuff that they had recorded or at least were working on. Well, and I think they already said, well, we're going to do it with Andy Sneap again. I'm pretty sure they said. He's basically in the band now. Andy Sneap's back. He's going to be making the album. 02:12:38.180 --> 02:13:07.860 The whole team that did Firepower is going to be on the production team. Firepower was great, dude. If it's anything like that, I'm happy. Yeah. The more I listen to Firepower, and I do put it on occasionally still. Oh, it's good. Yeah. It's not just kind of good, like living on a whole course. It's a good record. That is their Brave New World. How about that? For Rob coming back, that's the best thing they've done. Interesting. I feel like we're going to talk about this again a little later. Okay. 02:13:08.180 --> 02:13:36.520 So let's just take a break from Judas Priest for five minutes and move on to Rush. He's not going anywhere. Yeah. So Geddy Lee is planning to release a memoir in the fall of 2022, as many people are. And I am looking forward to that as a Rush fan. I'm a little surprised. I didn't, they don't seem like those kinds of guys. Well, it's, I'm sure it's not a kiss and tell book. 02:13:36.940 --> 02:14:06.400 And that's not a knock on anyone who writes memoirs. They just seem like they kind of prod through life because they're just being regular guys. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that, John, but I think Geddy Lee mentioned that, you know, he started because of the pandemic and he wasn't touring. And as we know, rushed the tours tons. Oh, yeah. So he had time to work on it. And then because they're not going to tour anymore. No, of course not. But he may do something that's still in the works. 02:14:06.520 --> 02:14:36.320 Yeah, but it won't be rushed. The writing actually helped him. It helped him, like, grieve the death of Neil Peart. Yeah. So, you know, it makes sense, like, to tell the stories of what happened with the band now that one of them's not here anymore. But also knowing Geddy Lee, it'll probably, half of it'll probably be about baseball. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Like, I'm not joking. That's why it's going to be good to read. Yeah, that's not it. It's going to be non-music related. In fact, I'm thinking of Neil's book about, you know, riding motorcycles. Yeah, Ghost Rider. I bet you anything, 02:14:36.540 --> 02:15:04.580 Getty'll do something more like that. Like it'll weave in. Rush will be there. A little bit. But it won't be about Rush. Yeah. By the way, have you guys, I don't know if I sent this to you. Did you see any of those clips where he and Alex were at the brewery? Some of the funniest stuff I've ever seen because they actually are like that in real life. They joke around like that all the time. Alex is claiming to be a scientific brewer. That beer scientist. Yeah. I heard he's also from China. 02:15:06.540 --> 02:15:36.460 They're actually from Canada. Uh-huh. What? That's an exotic mischievous. Take off, you hoser. Yeah. It's very weird. It's the Great White North, eh? Yeah. Did you watch any of his Dan Rather interview, by the way? And it's good. Dan Rather's doing these long-form interviews right now that are like, you can watch them on YouTube. And he shows Dan Rather like his baseball collection. It's fucking insane. Oh, he's an insane... I mean, he's got baseball signed by everybody, dude. Yes. Now, I don't know if you guys saw, but he has a cardboard cutout. 02:15:36.540 --> 02:16:05.640 I think at the games in Toronto. He was actually in his seat where he normally sits behind home plate. They had his cardboard cutout before the fans came back. They had cardboard cutouts. That's cool. Yeah. All right. So another book which is out now, JJ French from Twisted Sister released a book called Twisted Business, The Soul of Twisted Sister and the Art of Reinvention. I just picked it up the other day, but I haven't started reading it yet. 02:16:05.700 --> 02:16:35.179 So I have no opinion on it, but I'm a huge Twisted Sister fan. So looking forward to that. You are, but are you a fan of him? Well, I'm more, you know, on his shoulder. Yeah. There's sort of a like DJJ camp kind of thing. And I'm, I'm all D. I mean, come on, but, but, uh, even the rest of the band members don't have the same chip on their shoulders. Yeah. He's pissed about something. I don't know what it is. And he, he likes to take credit for a lot of stuff. I'm not trying to knock them. He just, 02:16:35.700 --> 02:17:04.760 I mean, the title alone says it, you know, the soul of Twisted Sister. I'm like, no, not so much. Well, no, no, no. Don't be so sure about that. I don't know. I'm not going to defend the guy, but I will say this. I think you must have watched it, George, but a very, very good rock documentary. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and A, J.J. started the band. It really was at control until he basically told Dee Snider, fuck you. If you want to do something, write some songs, which he did and took over the band. But anyway, that's a wildly entertaining documentary. 02:17:04.840 --> 02:17:34.320 And J.J. really does know the business side of things. Oh, he does. He managed some other pretty high-flown bands after Twisted Sister. Yeah. Like Seven Dust and some other ones. But still, you are not Dee Snider, and you will never be Dee Snider. Sorry. And I give him and the band, if you watch that documentary, all the credit in the world that they're selling out, what, the Palladium in New York, didn't even have a record out. Well, they had like a 45 out. Yeah, they're pulling like three, 02:17:34.800 --> 02:18:04.780 1,000, 3,500. Yeah, he's 100% right to pound his chest in that, but he just kind of came off a little. He's got a chipboard shoulder. He's got a KK down in advance with you. Yeah. A little bit. A little bit. I mean, it sounds like it's going to be an interesting read. I don't like Twisted Sister at all, but this does sound like it might be an interesting read just based on your comment. So I'm in between you, Markisan, and Jay and George. They're okay. They don't bother me. I don't dislike them, but I never got 02:18:04.800 --> 02:18:34.460 into them. As an old fuck, and speaking for old fucks, you're not that old. I am. Well, please. Says you, the rest of the guys, maybe. Don't be a dick, George. But as an old fuck, I, Twisted Sister meant a lot to me in the 80s. Oh, they were hugely influential if you were part of the MTV generation and you liked hard rock and metal. Well, in the biography about them, it's got to be interesting, right? I mean, they're just an interesting band. Yeah. So it could be a great read. 02:18:34.500 --> 02:19:04.460 So I'm curious, but you, Marcus, you should watch. Yeah. Documentary. They have the craziest history. They went, they came this close to getting record deals so many times and have worked so fucking hard. And honestly, we're, I mean, it started like as a Bowie cover band. Like they, you know, they've been around since the seventies. I was just going to say, you know, he was doing that shit in the mid seventies and people were giving him shit in the eighties about it. He's like, I've been doing this for 10 years. This is, I was doing it when Bowie was doing it. 02:19:04.500 --> 02:19:33.760 Yeah. So I'll give the documentary a shot. Cause again, like I said, I'm not a big fan, but I like documentaries. I like hearing about stories about people. It doesn't matter if you don't like them. That's really, really cool. It's up there with last days gone. It's that, it's that good. Yeah. You know, one of my favorite like concert stories is the fact that I saw twisted sister play at Jack's. That's wild. It was a Christmas show. 02:19:34.519 --> 02:20:03.980 And I was up on the stage. I mean, this is a teeny ass club. Did they do other Christmas songs too for that? No, they just played regular stuff. That's what I was previous to that. That's bullshit. Prior to that. But yeah, I was, so it's a teeny ass club. I'm up on the stage, right on the, you know, on the, on the stage itself. And D is banging his head and his hair is beating me in the face. And I'm like, flagellate me with your hair, D Snyder. It was at Jack's. Yeah. And I'm like, on the stage show at Jack's. 02:20:04.100 --> 02:20:33.200 Literally up on the stage. And his hair is just like. And I'm like. Oh. You're up on the front. For people to know. Jax is. Oh my god you got follicle fucked. Yes. Totally. I'm serious man. Jax was a venue that I lived the closest to where it was. Like 10 minutes from my house. And it had this huge like railing. Metal railing. No no we were literally on the stage. You were standing. Okay so that's why I asked. Because. 02:20:34.100 --> 02:21:02.940 It was only up a couple feet. But this huge railing. I mean, it wasn't like a... You have to see it. George says small club, but yet they could somehow get 450 people in there, which is crazy. Yeah. But anyway, that's one of my greatest stories of all time. I have been beaten with Dee Snider's hair. Nice. Congrats. All right. Last news item. Creator has begun working on a new album. 02:21:03.860 --> 02:21:33.560 With Arthur Rizek. That's awesome. Which is interesting to us because Arthur's been on the podcast before. And we saw him this weekend. We saw him this past weekend. He was with Eternal Champion. And, you know, he's a producer extraordinaire these days, but also a guitar player. And drummer. And drummer. With Summerlands. With Summerlands, yeah. And this kind of blows my mind. I mean, who's the other? He did the Cavalera. 02:21:34.619 --> 02:21:35.860 Brothers album too as well. 02:21:36.030 --> 02:21:36.760 Okay, that's probably. 02:21:37.180 --> 02:21:40.960 Yeah, and I'm like, whoa, you know, this guy we know is like doing these huge things. 02:21:41.380 --> 02:21:45.900 So kudos to Arthur and looking forward to that new creator album. 02:21:46.850 --> 02:21:48.960 You know, that's funny too, because this is just like the priest one. 02:21:49.080 --> 02:21:51.860 I thought they recorded that, but I guess they just finished writing it. 02:21:52.000 --> 02:21:52.300 So whatever. 02:21:53.060 --> 02:21:54.640 Is he producing or mixing? 02:21:55.520 --> 02:21:56.540 He's producing it. 02:21:56.700 --> 02:21:58.080 He's producing it, I think, John. 02:21:58.440 --> 02:22:00.660 Yeah, they said that it's going to be more thrash again. 02:22:01.180 --> 02:22:31.140 They said it's going to have melody, but it's a lot of traditional parts. They have 12 songs done. They're going to pick the 10 best. And yeah, I'm really excited to see, you know, what comes out of this. Yeah, he definitely has a knack in the studio. He knows what he's doing. And that's good. It's good for him. Yeah, it's just he's a different kind of producer for creator. So I'm always excited about that because you don't know when you have somebody like that come with a band like Creator, you know, what's 02:22:32.001 --> 02:23:00.080 that's very different than what they've done before that's always exciting to me um because it could be magic you never know he if you uh if anyone knows summer lands i like that album that it never seems like they're going to release the second album but it just had that 80s vibe but sounded like it was made in the 2010s yeah uh he he has an ear in the studio which i think is good but that's interesting too so i'll bring dennis into the conversation 02:23:00.939 --> 02:23:29.680 When you're getting your albums produced, what do you look for in a producer? Because you talked about how you wanted to do this black metal sound, but you want it better produced than other black metal albums. What do you look for when a producer comes in? Usually it's a comparative thing with just other pieces that they've done, other records. And so Josh Schroeder, it was more of a, we didn't really know. 02:23:30.080 --> 02:24:00.060 Well, I didn't really know any producers and I had worked with him before. And so I was like, oh, okay, we can. I know he's good. That's all I knew about him. So I went with him. And then because we were familiar, we had become, you know, I'm still friends with him to this day. He's a really cool guy. That's it. It was a good working relationship. You know, he gave us a good deal on doing records and I liked, I liked his work. And then for this newest one, we wanted to, you know, sound different. And one way to do that is to find a way to do that. 02:24:00.100 --> 02:24:29.500 a different producer because they all have their own sound. And so we found sort of out of convenience, we tracked the record with somebody in Minneapolis who just we knew personally. And it was just easy because I would have to drive down there. It was during the pandemic every few days and we like do some parts and I drive back and it was kind of a long process. And then for the mixing and mastering, we went with Jack Shirley. 02:24:30.100 --> 02:25:00.020 who does like his stuff. I just like the way he makes it sound. I mean, he does his best known work. It's like Deaf Heaven, which is funny because you're compared to the most. But I mean, if you listen to our newest record and Deaf Heaven's newest, I mean, I don't think anyone would compare us anymore. Not at all. That's interesting because their actual mix has evolved each album too. Yeah, well, and we weren't able to do this, but he told us, you know, 02:25:00.080 --> 02:25:29.960 He prefers a band to all be in the same room and to record it live in the studio. So that's what he said Deaf Heaven does for every record. It just wasn't possible for us to do that. So ours is not recorded live. But I think if we were to do another one, we'd probably consider doing that. All being in one big room and actually playing through the song together. That's interesting. Not that that's rare, but you don't hear about that as much. And you can tell when you listen to an album if it's recorded in the studio with everyone there. 02:25:30.080 --> 02:25:31.920 It has a more organic feel to it 02:25:32.550 --> 02:25:32.660 Yeah 02:25:33.030 --> 02:25:33.140 Yeah 02:25:34.140 --> 02:25:34.880 Well and just an aside 02:25:35.070 --> 02:25:36.900 I actually really like the new Death Heaven album 02:25:36.950 --> 02:25:37.780 I like the direction 02:25:37.900 --> 02:25:38.020 Yes 02:25:38.090 --> 02:25:39.500 It's gone and more shoegaze 02:25:39.620 --> 02:25:39.820 Than 02:25:40.540 --> 02:25:42.060 Which is where they should have just been 02:25:42.400 --> 02:25:43.040 Yeah I agree 02:25:43.570 --> 02:25:43.680 Yeah 02:25:44.060 --> 02:25:46.100 Maybe sooner rather than later 02:25:47.420 --> 02:25:48.780 Yeah I like the early albums 02:25:48.940 --> 02:25:50.160 And then the middle period was like 02:25:50.220 --> 02:25:51.160 I don't know what's going on 02:25:51.300 --> 02:25:53.040 And then they've got this new sound 02:25:53.180 --> 02:25:54.220 That's not really even metal 02:25:54.320 --> 02:25:55.420 Except maybe that last song 02:25:55.760 --> 02:25:55.880 But 02:25:56.320 --> 02:25:57.140 Which is really funny 02:25:57.190 --> 02:25:57.420 Because they 02:25:57.880 --> 02:25:58.500 But George do you remember 02:25:58.590 --> 02:26:00.060 They released a single 02:26:00.080 --> 02:26:29.940 after, God, I can't remember what album it was. New Bermuda Break or whatever it was called. Yeah, I was like, this is like legitimate black metal. I'm not saying they weren't before, but they took a turn a little bit and nobody paid attention to that song. I was like, I actually like this song a lot. I mean, not to go too down the road with this, but I really like that new Bermuda album. It's not bad. I like the film, actually. I didn't layer riffs on it, man, and it's still black metal. That's by far, 02:26:29.980 --> 02:26:53.260 My Favorite. And then after that, I wasn't as interested. But I'm all... Listen, if a band wants to try something new and try to figure out what their sound is, do that. I don't need the same fucking album every time. Yeah, and you don't have to like it either. You can like it or not. Exactly. You don't have to like it. Yeah. So... Anyways. Yeah. Anyway. All right. New Releases. 02:27:03.601 --> 02:27:07.700 Here we are. First up, we have the new 02:27:08.080 --> 02:27:11.640 enslaved EP, Caravans to the Outer Worlds. 02:27:17.160 --> 02:27:18.420 I'm going to be happy. 02:27:19.960 --> 02:27:21.560 Yeah, I listen to this. I like it. 02:27:23.900 --> 02:27:28.440 I didn't expect this from enslaved because it's cosmic. It's strange. 02:27:28.740 --> 02:27:58.340 It's a departure from their last record, which of course we all really liked. But of course I like it because it's Enslaved doing something completely different. Well, it's interesting. I was hoping Jay would be back for this because I wanted to get his opinion on this EP because there's almost there. So Jay, can you hear us? Thumbs up. All right. Hey, so we're talking about Enslaved's new EP and I'm Mark Azon. Go ahead. I want you to finish what you're saying. Then I wanted to, I wanted to make sure Jay was here for what I had to say. 02:27:58.380 --> 02:28:28.160 Yeah, and I apologize for that. That's fine. I mean, I think I already said everything, but yeah, I just found it really cosmic, strange, just different than what they did. I didn't expect this kind of a departure to be more of spacey. So it took me a second. I actually, when I put it on, I was like, wow, this is not what I thought they were going to follow up the last record with. But the more I listen to it, the more I like it. I just kind of fall into that record. It feels like, you know, you're traveling. 02:28:28.420 --> 02:28:58.200 through the universe. And I like that. I like that Insleeve just keeps just doing something unique and different. They could easily rest on their laurels and they never do. I love that part of that band. Well, Marcus, just to throw this out real quick before you make your comments, John's brief, and that is that this is an expansion. It's a companion piece to Udgar. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess you've probably read everything I read. I don't think of it. I mean, it does not sound like a companion piece to me, though. 02:28:58.680 --> 02:29:28.360 Does it sound like it to you? I feel like it's very different than Utgard. I think it's a companion piece to the concept. And so I think in this, whatever spiritual journey that is taking place in Utgard is now out in the fucking cosmos. So it's like the next logical step or something like that. Right. But in any case, John, I cut you off because you're... No, it's fine. No, no. I'm interested. I actually like this EP a lot. It's two songs, and then there's two songs. 02:29:29.000 --> 02:29:57.860 They call them intermesos. They're like instrumental pieces where they kind of, all the songs are connected. They all kind of weave in and out together. But I was curious to see what people thought of this. And I know Jay and I have had plenty of enslaved conversations on the side. This opening track, The Caravan of the Outer Worlds, to me it sounds like it has a lot of ruin in it. 02:29:58.400 --> 02:30:26.600 The opening track to Ruin is in Troper. It kind of reminds me of that a little bit. But with the kind of Utgard sound. And what I found interesting is that they have Ruin Part 2 on this one. It sounds nothing like anything off of Ruin. And I'm going to quote my friend Jeff. George has met him before. He sent me a message and he said that, let me find it here, I want to quote him right, that this EP sounds like it fell off a Dead Can Dance tribute album. 02:30:27.540 --> 02:30:57.480 And I think he's right. I think he's spot on. When you listen to Rune, it sounds like Dead Can't Dance, but a little metalized. Yeah. And I love Dead Can't Dance. I love Dead Can't Dance. And actually, Rune, at the end of the day, probably my favorite enslaved album, honestly. It's that and Below the Lights is number one. Rune is right below. I always know it's Below the Lights for you, which I totally appreciate. Rune is, I love Rune too, though. You know, it was funny. I almost texted you guys this week because I was swimming as I saw. 02:31:01.300 --> 02:31:26.500 Which, by the way, you were on the last episode, Jay, and I made a reference to that in my album cover description. We got to pay the bills somehow, so I'm glad you did. And, you know, what I was going to mention was that I was swimming in Tides of Chaos from Rune came out. And talk about a great song underwater, dude. Jesus. I never expected anybody to say that. Talk about a great song underwater. 02:31:27.540 --> 02:31:57.360 That's called Tides. You know, that's the one with the, and I have a dream in it, I kill you all, that whole song. That's so many good riffs on that fucking record. Jesus. I like it. And Slave could basically fart on record now, and I'd be like, give it a chance. You know what I mean? It's going to be the most psychedelic fart you've ever heard in your life. Yeah. I mean, it's only two songs, and it is two instrumental pieces, but, like, my friend Jeff's like, God, I want more. I'm like, I'll take anything at this point with them. Of course, they've got, like, now, what, 02:31:57.580 --> 02:32:27.120 18 official releases including EP's. It's like, and they're only, they're younger than us, which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty mean. Dennis, you have any thoughts on Enslaved? Do you like, do you like Enslaved? Do you listen to them? Um, they're not a band I've really listened to. I did check out every record, um, on the list that you sent. Yeah, I know, I know. People are going to say that about a lot of stuff or about what I do listen to. But, um, yeah, I, I thought it was interesting. I, 02:32:27.540 --> 02:32:57.520 I'm the kind of person though I'd have to like listen to it once give it a little bit listen to it a couple more times to really have like a an actual in-depth description but they I don't yeah there I haven't really listened to them before so I'm not gonna be able to give anything well you need to go back in the catalog because they're legends and yeah and I was just yeah Markisan right it take the whole journey yeah take the whole which album should I listen to first that's the first one yeah and then just keep going you know John I have to tell you I'm embarrassed to admit I put this on 02:32:57.520 --> 02:33:27.500 in vinyl for the first time. Below the lights is my favorite Alman John. That's the live version. Yeah, you got it too, I'm sure. These, I am so glad I bought these. I listened to them back. I hadn't put them on yet as much as I've seen the show. Fuck, they were so good. Yeah, Dennis, they did a lot of live events during the pandemic and I feel, I mean, they're an amazing live band anyways, but the stuff that they 02:33:27.520 --> 02:33:57.260 put on during the pandemic was exceptional and then they put them out on vinyl and a DVD as well which we all got. I don't have a DVD but it hasn't downloaded so I haven't downloaded the shows yet but I need to do it. Yeah. Okay George would you like us to move on? I would like to move on. Thank you. Okay. Move on. Masturbating the Enslaved God. I think that's an album. You know how much we love enslaved. We talked about albums we hate more longer than that. 02:33:57.520 --> 02:34:26.160 All right. Well, honestly, this next one. So. Agreed. The new Full of Hell album, Garden of Burning Apparitions. It's their fifth album, and they're like, grind, power, violence, whatever. I really love their Trumpeting Ecstasy album. But since then, I don't know. I don't know if I don't like them or I don't understand them because they have moved beyond what I, 02:34:26.180 --> 02:34:56.020 my understanding of what they are trying to be. This one sounds like noise to me. Yes. Kind of. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I get that. I think full of hell is one of the better grind death bands because they mix in a lot of weirdness that makes them more dynamic and interesting to me than other grind bands. But I'm just not into this like wham, bam, thank you, man, metal bands. I mean, the album's only 20 minutes long, which means it's not even. 02:34:59.239 --> 02:35:01.920 I need a lot longer to be satisfied. 02:35:02.800 --> 02:35:04.240 Thank you, Matt. I'm glad you got that. 02:35:04.320 --> 02:35:10.180 I'm sorry, but I thought Trumpeting Ecstasy was their apex, I guess. 02:35:10.960 --> 02:35:15.360 And I feel like since then, they just haven't met that standard. 02:35:15.580 --> 02:35:16.800 It was their apex. 02:35:17.420 --> 02:35:18.500 Everything else is downhill. 02:35:20.100 --> 02:35:22.920 All right, well, we'll move on then to what? 02:35:23.360 --> 02:35:23.740 Judas Priest? 02:35:24.280 --> 02:35:24.400 No. 02:35:25.080 --> 02:35:52.960 KK's Priest. Oh, shit. Sermons of the Sinner, the first album from KK Downing and Tim Ripper-Ellens. Who actually physically drummed on the album? It was supposed to be Les Binks, but he can't tour with them, right? Didn't something happen with him? Yeah. No, he's doing his own thing, but I do think he is on the record. He's on the record, okay. I'll check it out. 02:35:53.060 --> 02:36:22.460 So I just had a convo with Decibel James today or yesterday. Days blend together. But he was asking me my opinion on this. And I was like, all right, well, I like KK. And this album is full of classic KK riffs. Can't fault the music other than the fact that it's kind of stale. You know, it's like the riffs fucking bang. 02:36:22.540 --> 02:36:52.500 Okay. And I know where you're going next. And Ripper. I like Ripper. I mean, Ripper's a great vocalist. But, you know, he's kind of like trying to be Rob Halford. Story of his life. Yeah. And I think that sucks because I think Ripper's a good vocalist. And so I think both of these guys need to kind of 02:36:52.940 --> 02:37:22.140 do their own thing that is not priest. I think KK is a great guitar player. He writes great riffs, but he needs to not try and relive the past. Ripper needs to not try to be Rob Halford and just be Ripper. Question for you, George. Do you think KK wanted him to try to be like Halford a little bit? I have no idea. I have no, I can't answer that. I'm the same as you. I think he's a great singer. He is. 02:37:22.260 --> 02:37:48.440 He just always happens to be the guy who follows up somebody else. Yes. He's kind of the Joe Lynn Turner of his generation. Yeah. And I think that sucks because I think he's a great vocalist. I just think he needs to be a little more himself. Think of the two guys he followed up. Rob Halford and Matt Barlow. Yeah. That's brutal. I thought he had a more successful chart. 02:37:52.240 --> 02:38:22.180 I think he's more suited for them. Yes, I agree. I mean, I thought it was a pretty solid, fun, rocking record. You know, it is that it has some good choruses on it. Definitely some good music to it. Yeah, the vocals, they're not unique. And then sometimes it goes ultra shrill, like the title track. Yeah, it was in the center. That was like listening to it was like basically it's like being impaled by a sonic ice pick. I couldn't deal with that. But the rest of it was it's fun. 02:38:22.840 --> 02:38:50.800 This is not breaking the wheel. It just sounds like things you've heard before. Right. It's not terrible, but it's not innovating. All right. What's the point of the record? I'm going to make a hot take. Is this him auditioning to get back into priest? Yeah. I mean, is it KK not River? I can. Yeah, I can still play. Bring me back. Right. It's pretty average. You know, I mean, it's fun. It's it's it's old school. If you like that, you're probably going to dig the record. 02:38:51.960 --> 02:39:21.940 But I'm not really sure why they made this record. Dennis? Because he had something he wanted to do. He wanted to do something again. But I agree. I think Rob made his last two solo records to try to get The Priest. And I think that's exactly what KK's doing. I wonder. But I also say that they are probably my favorite guitar duo of all time in metal. Seriously, Glenn Titson and KK Downing. Even above Dave Murray and all that stuff. So Les Banks is not on it, John. Just to make sure I don't... 02:39:21.980 --> 02:39:51.940 He was gonna record and he couldn't. There's something I thought. But just too bad because I always thought he, outside of Scott Travis, he's the other guy. I mean, I love Simon Phillips, but he was just a hired gun for Sin After Sin. And the only other thing I will add to this is, and I'm a huge priest fan, and I love K.K. Downey, by the way, but the lyrics on this record are fucking horrible. I mean, and it just strikes it down so far for me because they are so bad. It's almost like they had a bad computer program 02:39:51.960 --> 02:40:21.740 that just took, you know, 80s lyrics and put them. Wait, worse than Chemist, Jay? Oh! Actually, no, no. Okay, actually, that has been much misconstrued here. No, but it counts here. And it's not that the lyrics are bad in Chemist. I don't believe what he's singing. And it's the same thing with this record. He sounds to me like he's just reading metal lyrics. And he's singing. He's singing. Don't get me wrong. It's just it sounds like this is what a metal song should have in it, these four words. Okay. 02:40:22.000 --> 02:40:51.940 Well, I actually, on the last podcast we did, we talked about Chemist a little bit. And because, you know, they put out the song, they announced the record was going to come out. And I'm actually really curious to see what you say about those lyrics, because it's all about mental issues in the pandemic, which the band members have suffered. So it should be very genuine in the lyrics. I don't know, because we haven't heard the record yet, but it will be interesting to see what you're saying. 02:40:51.980 --> 02:41:21.920 your take is on that, Jay, because that seems like it's definitely coming out. Marcus, I don't shit on it. Don't worry. I'm telling this. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. I'm sort of legally bound at this point to not like anything. No, now you have to like the album, Jay. Throw the band off for once. So you should listen to Ghostbath more because, you know, the first few albums, the lyrics, there is no lyrics, really. I do listen to Ghostbath stuff. I didn't say that much during the interview. 02:41:22.840 --> 02:41:24.240 But I actually 02:41:25.360 --> 02:41:25.920 And I apologize 02:41:26.160 --> 02:41:26.700 Because I'm always terrible 02:41:26.860 --> 02:41:28.220 But what's the one with the moon on it? 02:41:28.300 --> 02:41:29.000 That was the first one 02:41:29.040 --> 02:41:29.400 Moon lover 02:41:29.520 --> 02:41:29.960 Moon lover 02:41:30.280 --> 02:41:31.760 Yeah, obviously, there you go 02:41:32.220 --> 02:41:32.760 Oh, no, dude 02:41:32.840 --> 02:41:33.740 I love your stuff 02:41:33.960 --> 02:41:34.680 I just didn't want to 02:41:34.720 --> 02:41:35.700 What happens here 02:41:35.720 --> 02:41:36.560 Is at the end of every episode 02:41:36.700 --> 02:41:37.100 I tell you 02:41:37.400 --> 02:41:38.920 You're my favorite guest we ever had 02:41:38.960 --> 02:41:39.600 So I'm just holding on 02:41:39.860 --> 02:41:40.300 Until we get there 02:41:41.420 --> 02:41:41.940 Thank you 02:41:43.180 --> 02:41:43.820 All right 02:41:44.580 --> 02:41:45.520 Dennis, I don't know 02:41:45.540 --> 02:41:46.200 If you had anything 02:41:46.340 --> 02:41:46.940 To contribute 02:41:47.460 --> 02:41:49.100 To the whole KK thing 02:41:50.180 --> 02:42:19.080 I'm a big Judas Priest fan and I only checked out the single for this. I don't know the history of this whole project, like KK's Priest. I've never even heard of that, honestly. Well, he left the band. I know it's the guitar player from the band, right? And so listening to it, I was like, I really dug the guitars. I wasn't super into the vocals and the whole time. I don't know, just something didn't connect for me and I just thought, you know, why not make a new project? I just hate 02:42:19.520 --> 02:42:48.600 derivative type. I don't know if it's derivative. It just feels odd. It feels like, yeah. It's like, why make this album? There's nothing special about it. No, it's paint by numbers going through the motions. I was ready. I was hopeful for something more. That was true. You got it right. But the riffs are cool. That's my favorite thing about it. The riffs are cool. If you like old school metal and you like Judas Priest, you might dig this album. 02:42:49.100 --> 02:43:19.040 That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think John, then I go back to John and I stare. I think KK for all of his fucking bitching would still come back if they asked him. Oh, he would do the three guitar thing in a heartbeat to get back to that. I think Andy Sneap would step out of the way. I say fuck it. Put them all out there and show them they could do the main thing. Why not? You gotta have Andy Sneap because Andy Sneap fucking rocks. I'll tell you, when George and I saw him and I've seen him twice with Andy, I get it. Fans get pissed. 02:43:19.100 --> 02:43:49.020 He never took center stage. He never took center stage. He always knew his place. He understood what he was there for, which I thought was good awareness. He's the new Ian Hill. He moved a little bit, Jay. He did put his foot up on the amp. He's always said, 02:43:49.120 --> 02:44:14.880 He says I'm not a member of this band. No, and that's why I like him. Yes. All right. So let's bang through these last three new releases. Although I don't know about this next one. Might take a little talking. Rivers of Nile, The Work, their fourth album. They're a Pennsylvania prog death-ish album band. 02:44:19.100 --> 02:44:49.060 We've liked them in the past. I've, I can honestly say I've only given this album one listen and I'm still on the fence. So I have no concrete opinion yet. I mean, it's John's album of the month. Clearly John likes it. If you're expecting tech death, think a little harder because they're, I've been holding back on this because this came up earlier. They are expanding their sound. They're not doing the same album over and over again. Now it is saxophone. 02:44:49.120 --> 02:45:19.080 Don't get me wrong. I was wrong. I apologize again for my comments. I had not given it a full list and there is sex but not as much though. If you're expecting the first two albums you ain't getting it. They're expanding their sound and I think we talked about this with Dennis earlier about not doing the same thing over and over again. Right. And I know Markisan you were saying you weren't getting it yet earlier in a post online. And I get it. This is a lot. This one's 02:45:19.120 --> 02:45:48.580 It's more of a grower. You gotta put time in. There is death on it, but there's some Devin Townsend moments on this album. Yeah. Their bass sound is definitely still there. It's still very much alive. It definitely expands. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, I spun it a couple times. I have a hard time getting into this record. I agree. I like that they're making a completely different album from the last one. And we've talked about this with Dennis. I don't want you to make the same fucking record. 02:45:49.100 --> 02:46:18.900 that fucking record. The first one you made, if I want to hear that sound. But I don't know. I just have a hard time. My favorite track in this record is Maybe One Day, and it's basically a progressive radio rock song. And that's not something I expected from this band. And I especially didn't expect to like this song better than the metal tracks. So I feel like I probably got to listen to this thing a few more times. 02:46:19.100 --> 02:46:21.120 to see how I really feel about it. 02:46:22.380 --> 02:46:23.020 You know what I think? 02:46:23.080 --> 02:46:25.860 I think this is a transition to where they're going, 02:46:26.780 --> 02:46:31.260 and it probably wouldn't be appreciated as much until you get past that point. 02:46:32.160 --> 02:46:35.880 Every band goes through that transition where you're going to do something different, 02:46:36.220 --> 02:46:40.380 and it connected with me more than their tech death stuff, 02:46:40.380 --> 02:46:42.060 because I'm not a super tech death fan, 02:46:42.100 --> 02:46:44.360 even though I'm listening to a lot of technical death this year. 02:46:45.340 --> 02:46:47.640 It's weird, because I'll go ahead, George. 02:46:48.380 --> 02:46:55.020 If you want that, you've got plenty of that. I agree 100%. 02:46:55.880 --> 02:47:14.980 When I listen to this, and I think one of the first things I told John, because I listened to this on the way to Meet John, the third song, I believe Wait, was very Queensryche-y to me. This is like Silent Lucidity right here. 02:47:15.680 --> 02:47:45.640 That's one of the songs that I felt had the Devin Townsend feel, though. If you put his vocals on these, no one would think twice about some of these songs. And I know Matt and I have talked a little bit about some of the songs on this, too. That there's a couple that he said that he gravitated towards and others he was struggling with. Here's the thing with this album. I feel like they're doing a lot of experimentation, clearly. They're doing a lot of new things. But whenever they go back to the metal, I feel like 02:47:45.660 --> 02:48:15.500 the riffs, the sound is just the same in all of them. And I wish they would do more with the heavier parts. I wish they would experiment more with the heavier parts. It feels like it's almost like an afterthought. We're going to do all this new stuff, but we're also going to add this heaviness that we had in the past. To me, it doesn't elevate that. The metal parts of it aren't elevated. I don't know how to describe it, but that's why I feel like the metal parts, 02:48:16.720 --> 02:48:45.640 Metals, what I love, that part isn't elevated. It's everything else around it that's elevated. And that's what bothers me, I think, the most. That's interesting because you probably have the opposite reaction to that album than most of the fans that are complaining. Most of the fans are like, oh, dude, it's too proggy now. And you're saying, oh, I don't have a problem with that part. I have a problem with the metal part. That's interesting because there's not many people saying that. So that's... Right. Yeah, because it's like, I'm okay with them doing the 02:48:45.660 --> 02:48:49.920 progier things, but it's like, they're like, Hey, 02:48:50.420 --> 02:48:52.420 we're going to remind you that we're also still metal. 02:48:52.510 --> 02:48:53.780 So we're going to put these things in it, 02:48:53.790 --> 02:48:56.300 but they didn't really put enough effort into the metal parts. 02:48:56.720 --> 02:48:57.740 That's the thing I don't like. 02:48:57.840 --> 02:49:00.420 That's a common theme in some of the more, uh, 02:49:00.830 --> 02:49:04.100 I say fairy views where they, they actually do think it through. 02:49:04.240 --> 02:49:07.200 I agree with that. Yeah. Interesting. I, I will say, I mean, 02:49:07.760 --> 02:49:09.060 as you guys know, we're also, 02:49:09.190 --> 02:49:11.600 my name was my number one album, whatever year. Yeah. 02:49:12.280 --> 02:49:15.580 So as I approached this and, and I am all, 02:49:15.640 --> 02:49:45.620 If you're in a band and you want to change your sound, I'm all about that. I'm all about art. And if that is where your art takes you, do whatever you may. I might be along for the ride. I might not. So with being such a big fan of them, I'm definitely going to give them as many opportunities. I'm going to give it as many spins as I need to. And as John mentioned, we had talked about it. It definitely grows on me. I think I had to find my base, which was the metal, and just feel out where... 02:49:45.640 --> 02:50:15.440 where I always know my name, they were starting to expand in a sexual way. You know, and as that is that sexual like sexual chocolate actual. Yeah. Is that sex addict takes, you know, comes with us. We, we need to see what else they're going to do. I think I mentioned, I think it's called sexual experimentation, which usually happens in the college years, but Hey, whatever, you know, I need to go for it. I just remember, I think I mentioned this to you, John, 02:50:15.520 --> 02:50:45.000 I felt like I was listening to a Flaming Lips album. And that's not a bad thing. It's just like, for me, I need to take that time to process it and just see how... What does the picture look like? Even the one after that, Soft Parade, I think was the album. I was really feeling that, but it's definitely coming through and working for me. I will say that. So this is a question for Dennis. Is this the kind of thing or kind of conversation you want to hear about your albums, whether it's a positive, 02:50:45.020 --> 02:51:14.820 of like, yeah, I love this album or I'm not sure. It's just the kind of like thought you want to hear from people, even if they're not necessarily getting what you're trying to do. But it's people are it seems to me like this album has got a lot of people thinking about what this man wants to do. To me, that's a positive whether they like it or not. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. It's better than just going. This is shit. You don't want to hear that, obviously. I guess I didn't pull this one off. Yeah. Yeah. To just have people. 02:51:15.020 --> 02:51:45.000 having you know a little bit more in-depth conversation instead of just like oh i like this riff or something like that where you're actually exploring you know everything all the thought they put into the album um this one in particular like i'm not familiar with their previous material so i'm probably coming at it from a way different angle if you've i know their their last one um what's it called where owls know my name or yeah um like that was like a huge hit for them and i for some reason i've never i haven't listened to it yet but i've listened to this one more than that one which is probably 02:51:45.300 --> 02:52:14.620 a really unique experience for people. Most people have heard the previous ones. So for me, this album, I really liked it. I don't know if it's like you're saying it's a departure from their sound. I thought it was really cool and it sounded really different. And that's why I think I like it as much as I do. It's because it is slightly different than their previous works. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I know their drummer. Jared was in a black gaze band called Underling and the very first ghost bath tour we toured with Underling. So I do know him. 02:52:15.220 --> 02:52:44.600 And that's why I checked this album out right when he posted it. And I'm really digging it. I think it's more of like one of those grower albums where you're going to slowly like it over time than one where you're going to listen to a track or listen to it right away and be like, oh, I fucking love this. You're going to listen to it and then you'll come back to it and you'll be like, oh, okay, I'm kind of digging this. That's kind of the feel I had for me. It's like one of those albums. And my favorite track was, I think it's called More in All Cats. 02:52:44.720 --> 02:53:14.640 with a question mark. I like that one. Yeah. Which is funny because I mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has a slew of albums where he and the Devin Townsend project where every song was in caps with an exclamation point. Okay. Every song on the addicted album has an excellent. And I laughed because I, I heard a little bit in there and I thought, wow, that's kind of funny. I wondered, I don't know if they did that or not. I'm just, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. It's just something that we all, we all find and hear things differently than each other that remind us of. 02:53:14.680 --> 02:53:15.280 to something else. 02:53:16.000 --> 02:53:30.520 Well, and the thing with this album, though, is that obviously we're having a spirited discussion about it. And I like that part of it because they clearly changed their sound from before. And we're trying to figure out how we feel about it. 02:53:31.900 --> 02:53:34.780 This is way different than the discussion about KK's Priestless. 02:53:34.940 --> 02:53:35.320 Exactly. 02:53:36.780 --> 02:53:43.080 No, because clearly they're a talented band, right? And they're doing something unique and different. And I like that. 02:53:43.140 --> 02:54:12.740 I just don't know where I come down, which side I come down on. And I'm going to have to listen to it multiple times. I already listened to it maybe three or four times. And I like that, man. I want you to challenge me, put out music that challenges me, that's something I haven't heard or challenges my feelings on the music. Because, you know, it could end up being like one of the favorite things I ever listened to. Or it could be something like, well, I gave it a fair shot. 02:54:12.940 --> 02:54:14.620 but it's not for me. 02:54:14.950 --> 02:54:15.780 The album worked. 02:54:16.160 --> 02:54:17.640 It actually worked for you, Marcus, 02:54:17.910 --> 02:54:19.600 because you've listened to it more than three times. 02:54:20.140 --> 02:54:20.720 So it worked. 02:54:20.940 --> 02:54:22.120 Whether you like it or not. 02:54:22.680 --> 02:54:25.220 Well, I think the thing with us on the Middleheads podcast 02:54:25.330 --> 02:54:26.740 is that we're very open to things. 02:54:27.300 --> 02:54:28.560 We're not closed-minded. 02:54:28.750 --> 02:54:30.460 Like we've talked about earlier with Dennis, 02:54:31.160 --> 02:54:32.700 when you put these articles on, 02:54:32.700 --> 02:54:35.960 they're all skewed towards one way for a band, 02:54:36.600 --> 02:54:37.480 and we're not like that. 02:54:37.939 --> 02:54:39.540 We want to hear different things. 02:54:39.630 --> 02:54:42.060 We want you to change your sound. 02:54:42.120 --> 02:55:12.060 We want you to grow as musicians. And so we want to be on that journey with you. And maybe we can't go along for that ride, but we're going to give it a fucking fair shot. That's why I like the Black Album. But we don't want to get Mastodon-ed. Yeah, and we're about to get Mastodon-ed again, by the way. I know. I know. I got like 10 bags of ice in my cooler. So next up is the new Skepticism album, Companion. 02:55:12.120 --> 02:55:38.620 It's their sixth album. They're a Finnish funeral doom band. This is their first album in six years. I got to see them at Maryland Death Fest a few years back when they played, and it was one of the most amazing shows I've ever seen, even though it was in the middle of the fucking day. And unsurprisingly, I thought this was a good album. 02:55:42.140 --> 02:56:12.080 I don't know if I'm a funeral doom anymore but I dug this um I know John wanted to talk about this but John left the building I'll talk about it I mean I think it's a fine funeral doom album George I know you like this band a lot yeah um it doesn't force bloody tears for the dead from my eyes like some of the better uh funereal records that have come out this year in my opinion I like hellish form or the stunning uh sepulchros album um but you know it's it's it's good 02:56:12.080 --> 02:56:42.020 I really like it. It's something I'll definitely listen to more. I love Funeral Doom. It just, there's not like a not a new tricks to it. You know what I mean? It's pretty old school. Funeral Doom. So I think I gravitate towards stuff in a genre where they kind of change it or introduce something new. That's why I really like that Sepulchre album so much because I feel like that's a new direction for Funeral Doom. But yeah, I still enjoyed it. 02:56:42.100 --> 02:57:10.940 I thought it was a pretty good solid album. Yeah, I like it a lot. I think seeing them really helped me understand the band because there's so much art into what they're presenting live that's not conveyed listening to the album. That, you know, like I said, it was one of the greatest sets I've ever seen was seeing them live. 02:57:11.500 --> 02:57:39.720 And I don't know. No, it's not. It's not groundbreaking for them, but it's still pretty damn good. Hey, George, real quick. Do you feel like this new one from them has a swallow the sun kind of template a little bit? Because I thought it swallowed sun a little bit. It seemed like there was more tempo to the music on this one than previous ones. I'm not a huge skepticism fan, but I thought this was kind of a cool album. So you're skeptical of skepticism. 02:57:42.739 --> 02:57:47.680 No, I'd have to listen to it again with that in mind to answer that question. 02:57:49.320 --> 02:58:03.900 Because I know Swallowed Son is kind of now joined in those ranks of the kind of deathy doom. They're not funeral doom, but no, although they did do a slightly funeral doom. They did the part three part three. Yeah, yes, which I thought was actually really good. It was. 02:58:05.540 --> 02:58:08.740 All right. Well, I thought it was pretty good. Yeah. 02:58:09.840 --> 02:58:39.080 They're quality, sound, regardless. So I think they deserve the time. All right, let's move on to our last new release then. And this is the Unto Others album, formerly known as Idle Hands, but they had to change their name due to a lawsuit or something. Yeah, that's crazy. So technically their second album, first with the name Unto Others, it's called Strength. And they're like a heavy gothic rock band. 02:58:39.840 --> 02:59:09.120 To me, this sounds like if The Cure did a metal album. Yeah, I think Markisan like their, I don't their debut, didn't he? Mana. I like I like. Well, I like I was not a big fan until I saw them open for King Diamond. And then when I saw them live, I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. And I went back and I listened to it with New Year's and I was like, yeah, I dig these guys a lot. So I really like you were a big Idle Hands fan, right? Oh, we're moving on. 02:59:10.580 --> 02:59:39.760 Sorry, Dennis was about to say something. I didn't know they had another album. I didn't know they were idle hands. But when this one came out, I saw a lot of my friends posting about it. So I checked it out. I thought it was really good. I've probably listened to it like four or five times already. And I found it like three days ago or something. Well, it just came out on the first. Yeah, yeah. I just yeah, I've listened to it a bunch. To me, it sounds like and this is just coming from my experience. 02:59:40.759 --> 03:00:09.800 like tribulation type guitar work almost and and riffs and then almost kind of a typo negative type feel to the vocals and stuff and so those are two bands I really love and putting it together I just I like the result and I really want to see them live I haven't had a chance yet but and then I think their tour doesn't come through here unfortunately so I'm not going to get to see them on this one but yeah I think it's cool for sure I have a record to recommend for for you Dennis that I know you'll like 03:00:09.800 --> 03:00:39.220 especially since you're a tribulation guy and maybe you know these guys and they have a well they're gone now but they had a bit of a career but their last record was a super tribulation he got the rocky bunch of us anyway in solitude the album's called sister yes i cannot recommend it highly enough and it's to me the template for tribulation yeah um and it was they was kind of a change for them when they released it and then they just quit then they were down they were like fuck it we can't make it this this i promise you'll love this record all you just look at the cover and you're like oh yeah i'm in 03:00:39.240 --> 03:01:09.040 Yeah, I'll check it out for sure. Yeah, for me, I love the Unto Others new record. Yes, I love Idle Hands. I bought that last record on vinyl. And this one I'd like to get on vinyl, but it's just not like they say it's available for pre-order, but it's not actually orderable when you go to the website. So that's weird. But yeah, I love this. It's to me, it sounds like The Cure, but with metal in it. 03:01:09.220 --> 03:01:38.040 Yeah. So I love the fucking cure, like wish air cure. You know what I mean? Which is like my favorite cure period. So I don't know. It's fun. It's times when I'm listening to it. I'm like, I don't know if this is metal. And then all of a sudden they'll put the fucking metal riff in there. You know, there was even some fucking growls on this one. Exactly. They put, they actually put some heavy, really heavy elements into it. But you know, it's that fucking goth rock sound. 03:01:38.140 --> 03:02:08.120 that fills the hole in my heart for the cure. Because the cure hasn't put out something in a while that I've really responded to. Where are these guys from? I want to say they're out west. Like Seattle or something. Sweden or some shit. No, no, they're American. US, okay. China. China. No, I think this is a terrific record. And I've only spun it maybe twice. So I think 03:02:08.140 --> 03:02:37.980 I think it's probably going to be a lister for me because I think the last one was. But they're doing something that no other band is doing. Their sound is so different. This fills the Sisters of Mercy hole in my heart. Yeah, I mean, I love it because you can sing the songs and then you can rock out to the songs at the same time. And then it evokes things from the past, but it's also something new. They're from Portland, by the way. Portland, yeah. That's what I thought it was. Oh, shit. Yeah, I don't think they could do. 03:02:38.140 --> 03:02:42.160 In this style, the thing they're doing that's unique, I don't know if they could do it any better 03:02:42.380 --> 03:02:43.960 than this record. It's really good. 03:02:46.020 --> 03:02:46.340 Right on. 03:02:47.680 --> 03:02:52.480 All right, so because Jay has to get out of here, we are going to do Thunderdome real quick. 03:02:53.320 --> 03:02:59.660 Yeah, well, I tell you what, if it's okay, you do your description, and then I'll do mine, if you don't mind, because I really got to go get set up for my other thing. 03:02:59.960 --> 03:03:00.040 Yeah. 03:03:00.490 --> 03:03:00.880 Yeah, apologies. 03:03:01.350 --> 03:03:06.220 All right, so I am up for Thunderdome this time. 03:03:06.440 --> 03:03:35.540 I skipped my last turn. Explain yourself, man. I'm still trying to figure out where you're coming from with this. So, well, I had, I had a Thunderdome in mind that I wanted to do, but I really wanted Will to be here for it. And so I told Markisan, I was like, dude, Will's not going to be here. I got to skip. And he's like, the Thunderdome is in Will had to be here for it. And he was like, secret Thunderdome. He was like, man up, sack up, come up with something. And like, and like what, like instantly. 03:03:36.440 --> 03:04:06.400 I came up with creator versus corner. Okay. Initially it was pleasure to kill versus, uh, uh, punishment for decadence because those are probably like the most, you know, well-known albums. But I, I was like, nope, nope. Second thought, both these albums came out in 1989 and they're actually my favorite albums by these bands. So it is actually creators, extreme aggression against 03:04:06.460 --> 03:04:34.900 Against Coroner's No More Color, both from 1989. Jay? Okay, so I try to be quick here, except to say that I was a creator fanatic as a kid. I can remember having Slayer and Shona Merce and a few other records, and I would read Metal Force's pen pal section, and people started mentioning this German band creator. You gotta hear creator. So I finally got Endless Pain, which I had to get through. So I was a huge creator fan through the 80s. 03:04:34.920 --> 03:05:04.860 This record was the first one I kind of looked sideways at them because they started doing more social commentary in the lyrics, which for me at the time was a little less metal, even though it's a super fucking aggressive record. Extremely aggressive. But I had the good fortune to see them on this tour, by the way. And I know both of these albums. I love both these albums. I went back and gave them both an honest listen. And my initial choice was going to be creator, not even just by default. I was just like, oh, yeah, I forgot how much I like this record. 03:05:04.940 --> 03:05:33.660 And it's not rare for me to put on a creator record. But I think the Coroner is just a little more rooted in, like almost, it's like a more advanced pen-up. You know what I mean? Like it's got these more advanced wrists. And so it was really this move forward for them. I'm going to go with Coroner, even though I love creator. And I will say this, one thing you did for me on this, George, was that I, like I said, it's not rare for me to listen to creator. I haven't listened to Extreme Aggression in a long time and I forgot how much I liked it. 03:05:33.760 --> 03:06:02.180 So I appreciate it that much. Yeah, right on. Hey, do you want to? I got to check out. I want to stay. I really do, but I got to get set up for another thing. But I love you boys. And I'll listen to your part of this when the time comes. All right, Jay. All right, Jay. Nice to meet you. Dennis, it was a pleasure to meet you, Dennis. And you're a lot of fun to talk to, man. Thanks for your patience with our long windedness. Oh, no, that's fine. Have a good night, man. See ya. Jay's got to go kill orcs. They're also Jay's favorite guests of all time. 03:06:05.460 --> 03:06:33.700 I mean, Dennis is a great guest. There's no doubt about that. Yeah. This is Hannes Grossman and you're listening to the Metal Hats podcast. These are my first listens on these. All right. Well, Dennis, give us your thoughts on Thunderdome. Okay. So I listened to both of these for the first time last night. I've, I've heard both bands before, but it's just not these particular albums. And again, you know, having only one listen to not a few, 03:06:34.560 --> 03:06:36.920 I'm not going to be that extensive, but I think 03:06:37.939 --> 03:06:41.620 straight off the bat, just through a first listen, I liked the creator album more. 03:06:42.240 --> 03:06:45.100 It sounded a little more raw in a good way. 03:06:45.430 --> 03:06:50.900 And so like some bands will have, you know, a more raw, I don't know if you'd say like lo-fi, but just 03:06:51.959 --> 03:06:55.040 just not as a polished production on it. 03:06:55.220 --> 03:06:57.020 And it'll like detract from the album. 03:06:57.480 --> 03:07:00.020 But I think for the creator album, that really worked for it. 03:07:01.261 --> 03:07:05.340 I don't know. The vocals really grabbed me. They were so 03:07:07.780 --> 03:07:10.160 precise. I could understand every word he was saying. 03:07:11.440 --> 03:07:12.660 I don't know. It was different. 03:07:14.760 --> 03:07:18.900 Just the way he presented the vocals really gripped me. 03:07:19.080 --> 03:07:21.500 I think that one wins for me. 03:07:22.080 --> 03:07:22.360 Right on. 03:07:23.760 --> 03:07:27.180 The vocals are very raw. I like that part of the creator album. 03:07:27.360 --> 03:07:30.520 It's funny because it's probably their first like 03:07:31.220 --> 03:07:35.200 well I mean that was I believe their first major label album 03:07:36.721 --> 03:07:39.920 they were like on epic or some shit 03:07:40.860 --> 03:07:43.040 Well and it's interesting too because the 03:07:43.500 --> 03:07:47.340 one of the things I don't like about the creator album is that they had 03:07:47.500 --> 03:07:51.420 original artwork that was like a man standing in front of a bathroom mirror 03:07:51.680 --> 03:07:54.440 looking at his reflection while his face is falling off 03:07:54.440 --> 03:08:24.420 And then the fucking record label's like, nah, we're not doing this. So you replace the artwork with the band, which is nowhere near as good. I was going to say, I didn't see that artwork. I saw the band on the cover. Exactly. Actually, it was noise records. Sorry. But I'm sure that was like a sub to a major. So anyway. My turn, right? Yeah. So yeah, I think that creators extreme aggression is just a, it's 03:08:24.440 --> 03:08:54.300 It's raw. It's fierce. It's raucous. It's a raucous fucking pummel fist of a thrash record, man. And it was actually the first creator album I listened to because Headbangers Ball and MPV played the track Betrayer a fucking ton. I heard that a lot. I was like, fuck, I need to listen to this. But as much as I love that album, it's fucking up against the wall because Coroner is one of my all time favorite bands. Nice. I love their last three records. 03:08:54.440 --> 03:09:24.420 which includes No More Color, because they really progressed into an absolutely stellar progressive thrash band with avant-garde moments that were influential to metal. I'm talking influential like death, who we think of as a really influential metal band. So I feel that Corner entered their final form. They're still going, but their final 03:09:24.460 --> 03:09:29.240 with Mental Vortex and Grin, which I really like those albums, which came after this one. 03:09:30.160 --> 03:09:33.040 But No More Colors, where the band really started evolving. 03:09:34.020 --> 03:09:38.220 And so it's a pretty damn special record. 03:09:38.480 --> 03:09:45.760 And you can hear how they're moving from their earlier stuff to something that's more progressive on this record. 03:09:46.300 --> 03:09:51.920 So my choice, without any hesitation, is Coroner's No More Colors. 03:09:52.420 --> 03:09:52.740 Nice. 03:09:53.100 --> 03:09:53.560 Great record. 03:09:54.500 --> 03:09:55.640 All right, Matt. 03:09:57.000 --> 03:10:03.080 So I will say, I had not heard either of these albums before, and I only spun each of them once. 03:10:04.040 --> 03:10:07.140 I probably have a much longer history with Creator and Corner. 03:10:08.260 --> 03:10:13.020 So I went into that thinking I would probably go with Creator. 03:10:14.060 --> 03:10:17.640 But man, I really dug that Corner album. 03:10:18.640 --> 03:10:22.500 There was just something more raw about it, more depth about it. 03:10:24.260 --> 03:10:51.500 You know, just obviously both were, you know, kind of in the old school realm, but I just definitely connected more with Corner. And, you know, that's all I can say. Right on. John. Boy. So both these albums are great. I'm not as big of a Creator fan as I am Corner, but I wanted to give them their just due, like I do with all of these. And I enjoyed this album a lot from Creator. 03:10:52.600 --> 03:11:22.540 But in the end, it's corner all the way. As I once mentioned to George, they're by far one of my favorite thrash bands, but not for the reasons everyone else likes thrash. They're a technical thrash band. They're not just a regular thrash band. And they're one of the godfathers of technical thrash, along with Voivod, you know, at the time, Watchtower, Oblivion, which I'm newer to Oblivion. I had heard them, but I didn't get anything until George. 03:11:22.620 --> 03:11:29.140 got me the secret albums um you know and i'm also a mekong delta fan so i love that 03:11:29.440 --> 03:11:36.360 technical thrash and as good as this and i think creator is kind of they're kind of 03:11:36.920 --> 03:11:42.040 be listed you know as all those german thrash bands are because everyone thinks of the american big four 03:11:42.190 --> 03:11:47.279 but there's a big four german thrash and they're all they're all great but i think corner gets even more 03:11:47.300 --> 03:12:16.380 kind of set aside and I don't think people realize how good they really are. They are the fucking rush of thrash. Yeah. I agree. It's only three dudes creating this massive sound. They don't get their due. For sure. That's what I was saying. And partly it's somewhat their fault because they were only around through what, 94, I think, when they put out the greatest hits with some new songs after Grin. And Grin is definitely not like the previous three albums. 03:12:17.280 --> 03:12:46.840 You know at all. And their first debut is just straight thrash. But, you know, from Deccanets on, they were technical thrash. They got more proggy, like Marcus mentioned. You know, and just the opening track alone off of this album is just, you know, Die By My Hand. I absolutely love this album. And when you mentioned this, George, I was like, I know my answer, but I want to give them both a fair shake. Exactly. I absolutely love Corner. It's the only reason. 03:12:46.860 --> 03:13:16.560 outside of maybe one other band that I would go to MDF this time is to see them back. Yeah, I want to see them. Bad. It's three dudes making all that sound. Yeah. What's your favorite, John? I have a tough time because I like this album and I like Metal Vortex a lot. I think it's Metal Vortex for me for sure. I love Grin too, but Metal Vortex I think is like the highest. And Decadence is awesome too. That's like one of the first technical thrash. That's pure just technical thrash. There's no progginess to that. So I don't know. 03:13:16.860 --> 03:13:18.600 All three are awesome. 03:13:18.600 --> 03:13:20.880 This is where they had the technical and they start the prod. 03:13:21.120 --> 03:13:21.360 Yes. 03:13:21.720 --> 03:13:23.220 It's the in-between those two periods. 03:13:23.220 --> 03:13:23.300 Right. 03:13:23.390 --> 03:13:24.440 And that's why I like this. 03:13:24.640 --> 03:13:26.200 This album is seminal for them. 03:13:26.780 --> 03:13:26.940 Yeah. 03:13:27.120 --> 03:13:29.620 You know, whereas Creator, it's a great album. 03:13:31.500 --> 03:13:34.680 Not bringing anything new to the Creator table, I don't think, in that album. 03:13:34.840 --> 03:13:35.160 You know what I mean? 03:13:35.300 --> 03:13:35.480 Like. 03:13:36.780 --> 03:13:40.300 I think it's, and I love, and I wasn't as familiar with it, and I loved it. 03:13:40.720 --> 03:13:45.840 I think Corner suffers a little bit what Voivod suffered, which is if you get them, 03:13:46.420 --> 03:14:15.840 You're like all in 100%. And I think, George, you probably would agree because you're a big Voivod fan, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, when you're all in, you're all in all the way. And I feel like Coroner's like that, too, a little bit. Well, I mean, I'm all in Voivod. I'm all in Coroner. I'm all in Creator. So yeah, it's all good. He didn't pick these two. Yeah. These are two of the better bands to talk about in Thrash. Yeah. Over all the other ones we're familiar with. 03:14:16.420 --> 03:14:46.360 Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, again, like I mentioned, I don't think Creator is doing anything super new with that album, but it is. I mean, if you're going to think about the best Thrash albums, this has got to be up there in that conversation. They do it so well. Exactly. This is so well done. They do it so well. For Thrash. Yeah. But Corner takes my vote all the way. All right. All right. So Will's vote is Creator. Will's vote is Creator. I checked with Will, and he was like, 03:14:46.400 --> 03:15:13.900 He was like, duh, creator. What did Jay pick? Creator? Yeah. No, Jay went corner. He corner. So I'm corner, Matt's corner, your corner. That's four corners and two creators. So no matter what, corner wins. One, two, three. Three corner. No, there's three. Jay also. Jay pick corner as well. So it's me. 03:15:16.420 --> 03:15:46.380 Yeah, four. So I picked this one. And as Markisan can attest, I literally pulled this out of my ass. Like I was like, I don't know what to do. And he was like, sack up. And I was like, get out. And I was like, okay, creator versus corner. And good picture. It really is. It just came to me. I was like, oh, let's do this. And I kind of screwed myself here because I love it. 03:15:48.459 --> 03:15:53.880 I mean, these are two of my favorite, you know, early thrash bands. 03:15:57.039 --> 03:16:07.280 And as I may or may not have mentioned earlier, I started with Pleasure to Kill versus Punishment for Decadence because I figured people would know those more. 03:16:08.020 --> 03:16:33.740 But because these both came out in 1989, which is a theme, and also just happened to be my favorite album from both these bands, it made more sense to go with these two. I like Coroner a lot, and I'm super stoked to possibly see them at MDF next year if I can, because I've never seen them. However, I gotta go creator on this one. 03:16:34.460 --> 03:16:34.720 Wow. 03:16:37.480 --> 03:16:41.840 I listened to them both again today, just to confirm this, and 03:16:43.780 --> 03:16:46.900 Extreme Aggression, when it came out, 03:16:48.700 --> 03:16:52.820 this was an MTV thing. I mean, they had Toxic Trace from 03:16:53.500 --> 03:16:57.220 was that Terrible Certainty? I think was the last one before this 03:16:57.940 --> 03:17:00.420 that was on MTV, but 03:17:02.161 --> 03:17:05.521 it clicked with me, and this was the first 03:17:05.540 --> 03:17:35.360 album that I bought by them was Extreme Aggression. And like songs like No Love Lost. That's a culture. It just fucking resonates with me. You know, the whole things that we believe in, we will not betray. And to me, in the late 80s, early 90s, whatever the fuck this, 89, 89. So I was still in high school then, old as fuck as I am. This, that meant a lot to me. 03:17:35.540 --> 03:18:05.320 because at the... I'm going to go down a rabbit hole here. I'm sorry. You know, metal to me has... My whole freaking life since I was like 12 years old has been my thing. And what they were getting at here with this whole things we believe in we will not betray, that has been my whole life of metal. That I will, you know, 03:18:06.261 --> 03:18:10.840 I got lucky I picked metal you know if I had picked like Debbie Gibson 03:18:11.540 --> 03:18:18.340 that should have been over in the 80s at the end of the 80s but I luckily I picked metal and metal is still around 50 years later and 03:18:21.040 --> 03:18:23.560 and that meant a lot to me back then and so 03:18:24.140 --> 03:18:27.660 that sort of imprinted on me when this album came out and 03:18:29.160 --> 03:18:31.620 while I love the corner album so much 03:18:31.620 --> 03:18:34.081 I mean it's my definitely my favorite corner album 03:18:36.140 --> 03:19:01.860 Got to go creator. Nice. So you got a pretty even split. Yeah. And that's good. And to be honest, when it goes online, I bet everybody goes creator. Oh, I'll put it out there right now. I don't think most people have listened to corner, but I think you should. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think you should. Like I said, I think you'll be surprised by what you hear. Yeah. 03:19:10.760 --> 03:19:33.860 Did you mention Debbie Gibson? Yeah, I did. Sorry. Didn't mean to do that. I met Tiffany. By the way, George, I think Debbie Gibson's had, you know, quite a few albums over the years, including recent ones. So I think you'd still be okay if you chose her first. Yeah, but nobody knows it. Anyway, we're not going to talk about that anymore. Well, hey, awesome Thunderdome because, you know, 03:19:34.100 --> 03:20:03.320 Four to Three. Very close. I'm interested to see what the listeners say. Speaking of which, I forgot to mention at the beginning, we did not announce the results from the last Thunderdome. Right, right, right. Big shocker on this one. On the episode, so the last one was Iron Maiden's Seventh Son of a Seventh Son versus Queensryche's Rage for Order. 03:20:03.900 --> 03:20:32.620 And on the episode, Queensryke won. But listener voting, Iron Maiden all the way, baby. I'll bet you most of those people didn't even know or listen to Rage for Order. Doesn't matter. That's how it was for me. I had not really listened to Rage for Order. I ended up picking it because I just felt like it brought more to the table than that Iron Maiden album. And I love Iron Maiden. It was still pretty close. I'm curious to see what Dennis thinks, though. It was 60-40 on it. 03:20:32.680 --> 03:21:01.700 So it wasn't like a blowout. That's actually pretty good. That's better I thought it would be. I'll be honest I hadn't listened to Rage for Order either until I saw it on the itinerary here. But yeah I was surprised how much I liked it. I never even really listened to Queen's Rake so I'll probably listen to that one more. Mind crime baby. Mind crime. The first four is for the win. You can add Empire for an extra bonus if you wanted to. Yeah bonus round. 03:21:02.160 --> 03:21:31.580 That's literally as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'll definitely listen to it more. Just right off the bat, though, I mean, I like Iron Maiden better, obviously, because I've listened to them, and I like that album a lot. Can I Play With Madness is one of my favorite songs by them, and that's on this record. So yeah, definitely would go with Seven of the Sun. The title track, Seven of the Sun, is kind of weird, though. That's probably my least favorite one, which is funny, because it's the title track. Yeah, I do like the album a lot. 03:21:31.600 --> 03:22:01.560 I picked up like a copy that somebody had turned back in that was actually from the 80s. I have that on CD in my car right now. So yeah, and Will's favorite album. Just saying. So proggy. Oh, it's it's the start of what we have now. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like all the maiden albums, but yeah, I expected to pick that for the win. 03:22:01.600 --> 03:22:27.640 But then I listened to Rage For Order and I was like, holy shit. It's just way better than I thought. I was really pleasant. Honestly, if I listen to that Queensryche one, I keep saying Queensryche, I could see myself liking it more. I think I just need more time with it. Yeah. That's a grower. The one time I listened to it last night. That's cool. All right. Let's shoot back to what are we listening to? 03:22:51.741 --> 03:22:53.660 What are you listening to? 03:22:55.890 --> 03:23:00.260 I mean, the last record that I've listened to most often was that Unto Others record Strength, 03:23:00.410 --> 03:23:01.320 because it just came out. 03:23:01.400 --> 03:23:31.380 And I've been digging it. So, um, we live a little bit outside of town. So every time we drive into town, I've been putting that record on to jam to that one. Um, other than that, the one before that was the work, I just been checking out whatever new stuff's been coming out lately. Um, I, on vinyl, I just picked up, um, dark thrones, Transylvanian hunger, which is, I'm surprised. It's not like the one people mostly think about because it's like, it's a 03:23:31.400 --> 03:24:01.380 really low-fi album. It is. But it's just done in the perfect way. So I love just turning that one up high for some reason, even though it's super trebly. Either in my car or just on vinyl here. I love that album. I don't know what it is about it. It just kind of hypnotizes you in a way. I don't know. I think it's like the patter of the drums just constantly going and the super jangly guitars going and it just puts you in this hypnotic 03:24:01.400 --> 03:24:08.860 So those three albums, I'd say, were the most often listened to albums I've had in the past week. 03:24:09.490 --> 03:24:12.980 I love Dark Throne. Everything. 03:24:14.340 --> 03:24:15.480 Yeah, I like Dark Throne too. 03:24:15.980 --> 03:24:16.940 Hey, I have a question for you, Dennis. 03:24:17.440 --> 03:24:21.000 When you complete an album, do you go back and listen to your own album? 03:24:21.230 --> 03:24:25.180 Or once it's done, do you just let it go and not listen to it again? 03:24:27.820 --> 03:24:30.060 So I do eventually let it go and not listen to it again. 03:24:30.280 --> 03:25:00.200 And that's once it's released. So once we finish it, I'll listen to it a ton. Like, I'm like super into it. Like I make music I like listening to. So I'm like, oh, this is cool. I'm digging it. And obviously, you know, when you're doing the mixing, you got to listen to it a ton of times. And I try to give myself little breaks in between. And then right before, you know, like a single will come out, I'll listen to that song a bunch, that kind of thing. But once the record like comes out fully, I'll just, yeah, I stop listening to it. 03:25:00.280 --> 03:25:30.220 So like Star Mourner, Moon Lover, all those records back, I haven't listened to them in a long time. Right, right. All right, Markisan, what are you listening to? Right, so I've been going through the Immolation catalog because they killed it at Dust Bowl. Plus it's the 30th anniversary of their first album, Dawn of Possession. So I wish I had some more of that Angels Falled Mead from Brimminghorn to celebrate the anniversary. 03:25:30.300 --> 03:25:57.900 because it was good. I'm told that they're going to be releasing it in bottles, though. So that's good news. Also listening to a band called Honey, Forever Fire on Hell-Minded Records. This is an album that I picked up at Vinyl Altar. I got it a couple days before the Decimal Metal and Beer Festival, so Thursday before you guys even came in, because the shop spotlighted the record near the counter. 03:25:59.040 --> 03:26:29.020 because they're a local band and I noticed the vinyl because it has a striking Adam Burke cover and so I asked the vinyl altar owner about the band and it turns out that Honey is getting good reception in Philadelphia and he put the record on for me and the shop and we ended up chatting about Philly bands and the Philly metal scene for about a half an hour or so and I always loved 03:26:29.040 --> 03:26:58.980 I love discovering new bands from cities that I visit. Um, cause we get a lot of albums, of course, being in the metal, it's a podcast, but there's always something that falls through the cracks. And, um, I don't think I ever would have heard this band if I didn't go to the Decel Metal Beer Festival and then go to Vinyl Altar. So, and it's really fucking good. It's probably my second favorite thrash record this year behind Rapture. Um, so, 03:26:59.060 --> 03:27:27.880 So yeah, I mean, I, I got the vinyl, um, there and, uh, I've been spinning it a lot lately. So, and then the second record on my list is a witching Vernal. This is another Philadelphia band that, uh, the owner of vinyl altar introduced me to. And, um, I hear that they're making a big name for themselves in the city. And after listening to the album, um, I can see why, because their, their sound is a really dark mix. 03:27:28.740 --> 03:27:58.480 of Galloping, Atmospheric, Sludge, Black Metal, Doom, and Prog. And I picked up the CD there because they were sold out of the vinyl. I'm pretty sure if I had known about Witching in 2020 when this album came out, it probably would have made my top 25 list. So I'm really into that record. The third one on my list is Forlison, Hierophant, Violent. 03:27:59.040 --> 03:28:28.660 on Viridian Flame Records. This record came out last year. I know it was on my mid-year list. I can't remember if it was on my top 25, but I just got the vinyl because they pressed it earlier this year and then it just came in the mail. Of course, I had to revisit it in that format. It's just a stirring, palatial mix of atmospheric black, doom, I would say dark ambient, post-metal, slow-core, 03:28:29.460 --> 03:28:56.660 just a really gorgeous and unique debut record. Yeah, I really like that one. Huntress of Stars, Endless Landscapes of Grim Carnage, self-released. I found this Illinois band last year because they released their first record in 2020. So it's cool that they're already back with a new album this year. 03:28:57.360 --> 03:29:25.380 They play a doomy sludge metal with chunks of stoner metal, I would say, and hardcore thrown into it. So lots of big melodic guitars and atmosphere of dread with growls that are kind of pushed back in the mix, kind of like a, like a star mortar where it's like a, like a dude trapped inside a giant Tupperware container. And that's what the vocals are like. 03:29:25.700 --> 03:29:32.640 And I really dig this band. I'm actually hoping they play live 03:29:34.360 --> 03:29:37.920 so I can catch them when I move back to Chicago next year. 03:29:38.820 --> 03:29:41.320 But they don't have any social media. They don't have a website. 03:29:42.320 --> 03:29:46.000 So Huntress is probably just some guy who records his records when he's 03:29:46.740 --> 03:29:49.020 got days off from Applebee's or something. I don't know. But 03:29:50.300 --> 03:29:52.540 I like Huntress of Stars. I like both their records. 03:29:54.080 --> 03:29:54.920 It's really good. 03:29:54.980 --> 03:30:23.180 And then next one is Cardinal's Folly. Another record. I haven't heard them in years. This album came out last year. It's called The Righteous Way on Raft Child Records. I missed it last year. And I don't know where the fuck I found it. I think maybe I was reading an article and somebody mentioned it. And it's just husky driving doom with splashes of black metal and punk stirred into it. 03:30:24.960 --> 03:30:47.400 You know, for traditional doom, but with a little, you know, just a little embellishment here and there. I really like it. And then the last record on my list just came out yesterday and it's Gloosh, which I mean, a horrible, horrible band name Gloosh. I've heard that though. I've heard them. I've heard them. 03:30:54.980 --> 03:31:23.140 Basically played in the middle of a Siberian woodland. So there's lots of great melody and riffs on this record. There's critter noises from the woods. And then there's a song with hex chanting, which, you know, is required for all good Russian forest metal. Yeah, it's a really good melodic black metal record. I've been listening to that one a lot lately, actually. But I can't get over the band name Gloosh. 03:31:23.500 --> 03:31:23.980 Gloosh. 03:31:24.660 --> 03:31:54.020 It seems the Russian bands have weird band names. Cause I, that brings up another one I know called show me a dinosaur. Yeah. Super, super beautiful, like metal from that area. But yeah, weird name. Yeah. But yeah, it's a really good record. I think I put it up on a band camp Friday, every, every Friday for people that don't know on our Facebook page, John posts, you know, band camp or not band camp, but just, 03:31:54.660 --> 03:32:24.620 new release Friday and what albums have come out like what are you listening to and John talks about what he's listening to and then listeners all post the things that they've been spinning so really good one yeah um the band you mentioned they're called Honey is that right did I hear you right yeah Honey that's the thrash metal band yep okay I wrote that down I just wanted to make sure they're called Honey so I could look it up because it sounded cool yep it's the album's called Forever Fire okay I think they had like one album before 03:32:24.620 --> 03:32:54.600 that or an EP right before it. But yeah, very local Philadelphia band. They actually played on Friday for Decimal Metal and Beer Festival. Or maybe, hold on, maybe I was Witching that played. I can't remember. One of those bands played. It was sold out there, so I would have gone to that show. I love Adam Burke's art. Being a fan of both fantasy and metal, it's like so perfect. I actually commissioned him. He did eight different character pieces from 03:32:54.620 --> 03:32:58.400 My books. I didn't release those or anything. 03:32:59.420 --> 03:33:01.000 He's sending them in the mail. They're really cool. 03:33:01.740 --> 03:33:02.220 That's awesome. 03:33:03.080 --> 03:33:05.780 I actually own two Adam Burke original paintings. 03:33:06.779 --> 03:33:07.220 Awesome. 03:33:09.199 --> 03:33:10.240 I love his work. 03:33:10.710 --> 03:33:15.440 I haven't put him up yet because I got him here in Hawaii, but I'm going to be moving back. 03:33:15.860 --> 03:33:21.760 I just haven't put him up yet, but I'll put him up when we move and put him up in the office. 03:33:22.600 --> 03:33:23.640 Yeah, that's cool. 03:33:25.280 --> 03:33:54.340 All right, Matt, what are you listening to? Sweet. I think there's just one track out so far, but the band is Dream Unending. The album's called Tide Turns Eternal. Oh, yeah. It's a good song. From Tumold and Justin Titori from Innumerable Forms. Yesterday I found they're called Skirna Linea in a garland of wax, some atmospherical black metal I really got into. Also LLNN. 03:33:54.400 --> 03:34:22.680 The album is Unmaker, some very aggressive Danish sludge. I know them. And German band Der Weg Einer Freiheit, which means The Way of Freedom. Oh, yeah. The album is Nocturne. It's good. It's German black metal. I would say it teeters on post-metal. Just one track out so far called Into Waters of the Underworld, but that is the band is Ars Magna Ombre, and the album is Throne Between Worlds. 03:34:24.220 --> 03:34:47.040 Atmospherical black metal band I find myself gravitating towards every year. I really dig them. Off of Decibel Fest, I've listened to a shitload of Crip Sermon this week. Not that I wasn't before Decibel Fest, but I just can't seem to get enough of it. Also, what we've already touched on, Rose of Nile, the work. 03:34:48.340 --> 03:34:48.820 Right. 03:34:50.140 --> 03:34:50.260 John. 03:34:52.520 --> 03:35:21.360 So, two quick ones. Obviously, we already talked extensively about them. George shut us down on the first one. Enslaved, Care of Fantasy Out of Worlds. Listen to that a ton, even though it's only like 18 minutes long. And obviously, Rivers are now the work. That is my album of the month, which you would have seen posted previously, because this will come out later. Anyway, so new songs, or new albums. 03:35:21.480 --> 03:35:51.420 Two songs from this mysterious band. I don't know where we've heard of these mysterious bands and nobody knows where they're from. I don't know where we've talked about that before, but this band called Cognos, they're not going to be releasing an album on Will it Tip? It's a self-titled debut album. Apparently they're all anonymous. Nobody knows who they are. From China, probably. Yeah. Or Hell, Michigan. Or Hell. They're from, you know, 03:35:51.500 --> 03:36:21.140 Oh, Greece via Spain. I don't know. Yeah. I haven't brought that up in a while. But anyway, this is a, they, they have like a progressive death thing going, but they're very proggy. Um, these two songs are absolutely killer. I could see this thing just blowing up my list. Um, there's one song called a hierarch on there. Hmm. Like the last 90 seconds of this song is very last three minutes of deliverance by Opeth. Oh, shit. It doesn't sound like them at all. 03:36:21.500 --> 03:36:51.400 But it has that same approach of, we just played for like four or five minutes, or in the Opus case, just played for 10 minutes, and now we're going to just go balls out for the last few minutes of a song. It's just absolutely killer. And I swear, I could be 100% wrong, but on some of the clean vocals, it sounds like the singer from Emin Seuss off the album Ascension. It just sounds like him. For all we know, it could be him because he's in, 03:36:51.480 --> 03:37:21.160 like 432 bands right now. Another band out of Connecticut, Xenosis. Some people pronounce it as Z, some people pronounce it with an X. Anyway, the album is called Parallel Existence. It's a progressive death band. Like I said, Connecticut, it's their third album. I don't know anything about this band other than the fact that I saw the album. 03:37:21.520 --> 03:37:48.960 I listened to it. It is good kind of progressive death metal, but apparently they switched up their sound to go in this direction more than kind of a more, I don't want to say technical death. They're not like, I don't know if they're like that, but it was more technical sounding. There's more room on this album. And I swear one of the guitarists is listening to Alan Holdsworth because there's a lot of fusion based type guitar solos on here that sound like him. 03:37:49.620 --> 03:38:19.040 And I guess one of the new members of the band is the bass player from Fires in the Distance, which we've heard a lot about recently. I think they actually did a meet with Griminghorn recently. I had it. It was good. I like the album a lot, too. Yeah, a lot of people like the album. I know TR is a big fan. I know Looch is a big fan of them. I like this album. I've listened to it enough times that now I'm getting that little message on Bandcamp like, hey, dude, stop listening for free and buy this album. And I just keep saying. 03:38:19.600 --> 03:38:20.660 Maybe later. 03:38:21.410 --> 03:38:23.360 Because I'm still trying to figure out what I think of it. 03:38:23.490 --> 03:38:24.320 But it's good. 03:38:25.420 --> 03:38:28.160 And then Decibel Fest Centric. 03:38:29.080 --> 03:38:32.960 All of the Blood Incantation catalog, which is only like 14 total songs. 03:38:34.000 --> 03:38:36.300 But nonetheless, I spun a ton. 03:38:37.900 --> 03:38:43.440 I still think that their set was completely badass that they played for 35 minutes and played three songs. 03:38:43.920 --> 03:38:46.460 Which I thought was just balls to the wall. 03:38:46.980 --> 03:39:13.460 And then I obviously spun Crip Sermon, but I focused on The Ruins of Fading Lights because I hadn't listened to that in a while. And I like that album. I think it's much better live, especially the set that George, Will, and I saw at Atlas. I thought that was the best of the three times I've seen them. But I did enjoy the album a lot more going through it again after probably been about a year since I listened to that album. So that's it. 03:39:13.580 --> 03:39:43.520 It's nice to revisit albums because we get so many new metal records. It's nice to go back and listen to something from the past year before. Especially Crip Sermon because I agree because I have not listened to enough just traditional Doom and they've got an 80s metal vibe to them too. Just straight up metal. And they were great at Decibel minus the microphone hitches for the first two 03:39:43.560 --> 03:40:13.380 and a half songs. Right. You know, and then they got the mic switched out and then you could hear them perfectly on vocals. So. Yeah. That's all I got. All right. So. Bring it home, George. For the first time in Metalhead's podcast history, I really don't have anything. What? What? What are you talking about? He's only got like 25 albums. I've only got like 25 albums. Oh, shit. No. 03:40:13.540 --> 03:40:42.640 But to be perfectly honest, everything that I've been listening to has either been decibel prep or prep for this episode. So we've already mentioned everything that I've been listening to. I went through my phone and I was like, there's got to be something that I've been listening to that's not mentioned. And not really. I mean, I've been listening to The Enslaved, The Full of Hell, KK, Rivers of Nile, Skepticism, and others. 03:40:42.820 --> 03:40:43.800 All of that stuff. 03:40:45.660 --> 03:40:49.040 But I haven't really strayed outside that path. 03:40:49.400 --> 03:40:51.600 So I really don't have anything new to add here. 03:40:52.450 --> 03:40:53.520 I believe you listen to this. 03:40:55.540 --> 03:40:56.240 Well, of course. 03:41:00.520 --> 03:41:01.840 Hey, George, I got a question for you. 03:41:02.080 --> 03:41:04.620 Anything on Bandcamp Friday that you picked up? 03:41:04.660 --> 03:41:06.360 I know you got back in the game. 03:41:06.680 --> 03:41:07.200 I did. 03:41:07.570 --> 03:41:08.560 That caught your attention. 03:41:08.900 --> 03:41:38.680 Okay, so I did, I think I ordered six albums on Bandcamp Friday. Which you haven't done in a while. Which I haven't. Only two of those are actually out. So this is mostly pre-orders. But you never do. Yeah, but because it was Bandcamp Friday, I pre-ordered Noltom. Oh, yes. Imperialist. Yes. Waiting for that, yeah. 03:41:38.740 --> 03:42:06.480 Worm. I didn't get Worm, but I want to. Fucking Worm. Fucking Worm. Yeah, I want that promo because Worm sounds pretty good. You should get out of that, Dennis, because you like Tumult. Worm's kind of in that vein. I think it's their first album, right? No, I thought they had a couple albums. I don't know, but the two tracks they've put up for the new record, 20 Buck Spin, really great. 03:42:12.159 --> 03:42:38.220 I think they just dropped that second song for this week, didn't they? I don't know because I hadn't heard it. And then George mentioned, I was like, oh yeah, I got the email from, I better check this band out. So I went to the band camp and they did two songs. I had heard the one song a while back, I thought. I also pre-ordered a band called Varza, V-A-H. 03:42:40.240 --> 03:42:40.840 RZAW. 03:42:42.360 --> 03:42:44.160 And of course the new Wombath album. 03:42:46.240 --> 03:42:47.820 I did also pick up, 03:42:49.520 --> 03:42:50.760 because it was Bandcamp Friday, 03:42:50.810 --> 03:42:51.820 the new Veil Burner, 03:42:55.200 --> 03:42:59.040 Lurkers in the Capsule of Skull. 03:42:59.500 --> 03:43:00.060 That's a weird name. 03:43:01.860 --> 03:43:04.260 And the Crypts of Despair album. 03:43:05.500 --> 03:43:05.780 Oh yeah. 03:43:06.840 --> 03:43:08.160 Just because I didn't have it yet. 03:43:09.601 --> 03:43:37.860 All Light Swallowed. But I haven't listened to any of these yet, so technically that's why it's not on my list. I've purchased them, have not listened yet. Wow. This is amazing, George. I know. George usually, Dennis, has like this long list. It goes alphabetically. It's like 50 albums or something. 30. 30 at most. I don't know. I think he's become disenchanted with metal. No, I'm just busy. 03:43:39.659 --> 03:44:08.160 Yeah, we had kind of a long weekend, and then to come back, just not much time to check new stuff out. Yeah, I mean, it's only been two, technically it's only been two weeks since the last episode we recorded. Yeah, because we did an episode, then we had to Decibel, and then we had this episode. Yeah, so it's not going to post in that order, but you know. It'll post at some point. Yeah, so yeah, no, this is probably the first time I'm actually still editing the previous episode while we were 03:44:09.681 --> 03:44:38.020 But that shit should be done tomorrow. So it'll post in like two days or whatever. So yeah, that's what I'm listening to. Let us do now our album of the episode. Dennis, if you had to pick one album that has been mentioned from this episode that you like the most, what would it be? That has been mentioned in the episode. By you or anyone else. Right. 03:44:40.540 --> 03:44:46.780 I mean, obviously, if I go with my favorite three albums, that'd be kind of weird. 03:44:47.500 --> 03:44:49.320 But that's not unheard of. 03:44:50.520 --> 03:44:50.660 Yeah. 03:44:53.560 --> 03:44:54.900 Man, let me think. 03:44:56.820 --> 03:45:00.020 I think I'd have to pick... 03:45:02.000 --> 03:45:03.860 I'm just going to have to go with the Unto Others record. 03:45:04.980 --> 03:45:34.020 That's just what I've listened to most recently and what I've really been digging and what I want to listen to more, I guess, right now. So it just hit everything I was looking for right now, I think. And, you know, I just recently, I know they're an older band, Typo Negative. I got super into them recently. And then Tribulation, I've loved them. And I just, I hear both of those bands so much in Unto Others. I was kind of bummed that one guy quit. 03:45:36.299 --> 03:46:04.360 The Ballerina, Dancer, Guitar Player. I don't know if you know he quit, but I saw them live and he was like doing crazy dance moves while playing for Tribulation. So yeah, Unto Others, just it's cool. I don't know how long, like sometimes I'll get really into a record and then I'll kind of fall off for me, so we'll see how long I enjoy it. But if they come through like the Pittsburgh area anytime soon, I'm definitely going to see them. 03:46:04.560 --> 03:46:34.060 I think it's just really cool. It sounds pretty unique for right now. They just did a really good job with it. I like every aspect of it. I like the little grunts and stuff he does. Oh yeah, the grunts are great. Yeah, it just works so good. That kind of reminds me of an immortal type. Or like Tom Warrior, man. He's right. Celtic Frost, Trypticon. 03:46:35.640 --> 03:47:03.820 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. Awesome. So yeah. I'd have to pick that record right now just because it's, you know, it's in my mind right now because that's what I've just been jamming. So right up. Markisan. You know, I was going to go with a corner album because I love corner so much and it was nice to revisit that. I do listen to corner quite a bit, but you know what? I'm going to fucking go with a new ghost bath record because. 03:47:04.400 --> 03:47:34.040 I like Self Loaler a lot. I've been listening to it a ton. I don't think I've ever done this before on the podcast when we had a guest. But, you know, it comes out October 29th. I just think, you know, all the Ghostbath records are different. This one is darker. I love the huskier vocals that are brought forward, but it still has a lot of tenderness to it. And I just think it's a terrific follow up to Star Mourner, which was like, to me, that one was the most, 03:47:34.060 --> 03:48:03.480 That's like the emotional height for me of Ghostbath because it just has those bright colors to it that just hit me right in the fucking ventricles. But this one, I like it because it has that darker sound to it. I didn't expect it even though I knew that this is going to be a trilogy of records. So, you know, if you're not familiar with Ghostbath, but even if you are, 03:48:03.560 --> 03:48:33.340 I think that this record is just phenomenally good. So there you go, Dennis. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I can't disagree with that. It is a very good album. Not at all. Yeah. Not trying to kiss ass her at all, but it is. I like it a lot. Yeah. Matt. Normally I would go with Leviathan by Mastodon, but nobody mentioned that shit. So I'm going to go with Rivers of Nile. 03:48:33.540 --> 03:49:03.360 And the work. Fair enough. Oh. Nice. All right. Well, John. Matt, you just made me feel really sexy. I wanted to, I wanted to sax you up. So I'm going to. Sax your love. Sax your love. It's my Back to the Future pick, seeing as everyone who's listening to this podcast now already knows my album of the month. I'm going all the so with Riverside and How the Work. It just, 03:49:03.560 --> 03:49:31.860 It's earwarming for me right now. So it's working. I feel like this is the point, John, where we say that you and I are starting a separate podcast called Sexual Healing. People can tune into that after this one. And truth be told, I'm trying to turn Matt on the trumpet now, too. I fired some metal bands that have trumpets in their music. I'm open. I'm open to it. Oh, my. All right. Well, oh, my gosh. What? 03:49:33.540 --> 03:49:37.040 Oh my gosh. Just a couple of river slots there. I know. 03:49:44.080 --> 03:49:45.360 Check us out. We're the river slots. 03:49:48.600 --> 03:49:53.340 You know what? Actually, I have to bring this up now. I forgot. I totally forgot about it earlier. 03:49:54.479 --> 03:50:03.120 But, you know, we were planning for me to be on the podcast. You're like, oh, it is October 2nd work. I'm like, yeah, I just moved to Pittsburgh. There's literally nothing for me to do. 03:50:03.200 --> 03:50:32.900 I don't have any friends yet. You know, I just got here. And the first tour that comes through that I really want to see is Black Dahlia Murder. With Rivers. Carnifex, Rivers of Nile. And they're playing in Pittsburgh tonight. So I wasn't able to go, but I wanted to be on the podcast. I'll see them another time. The Roxy in Theater. Okay. Yeah. I was going to say, you have a cool place to go to called Mr. Smalls there also. Yeah. I think Rivers is from Pennsylvania. 03:50:33.180 --> 03:51:02.200 They're from Reading, I think. I know their drummer is from California. He was the one who was an underling. I don't know if he moved. He moved to Reno for a bit. I'm not sure. Isn't 20 bucks been in Pittsburgh too? Yeah, he moved it to Pittsburgh. Yep, everyone moves to Pittsburgh. Hey, Pittsburgh is fucking awesome. I love Pittsburgh. I always have a good time in Pittsburgh. I love Pittsburgh. It's kind of Midwest, but it's kind of not. 03:51:03.200 --> 03:51:32.980 of the border of Midwest. Growing up in Michigan, I love the Midwest. Pittsburgh is the easternmost outpost of Midwest. I love it. You've got to go to Primanti Brothers. I've been there like five times. As Will and I will tell you, I've spent a lot of time at Pittsburgh, and he has too. I can't tell you how many amazing drinking experiences I've had in Pittsburgh. 03:51:33.180 --> 03:52:00.760 Oh, yeah. So many good places. And Hofbrau House. Fucking love that Hofbrau House there. And what's the church one? I forget. Oh, the Brew Works. Yeah. There's also, they used to have a place called the Sharp Edge. I don't know how many are left, but they used to have like four of those. They were Belgian bars all throughout the city. They were awesome. Fat Heads has a place in the south side, which is cool. Yeah. Love Pittsburgh. 03:52:03.979 --> 03:52:05.220 So it's all good. 03:52:05.640 --> 03:52:06.120 All right. 03:52:06.760 --> 03:52:13.920 Well, for my album of the episode, I am going to get in line with Dennis because Unto Others is my jam. 03:52:17.159 --> 03:52:18.040 It's so good. 03:52:18.220 --> 03:52:19.000 It's so good. 03:52:19.600 --> 03:52:19.780 Yeah. 03:52:19.970 --> 03:52:20.380 I got it. 03:52:20.500 --> 03:52:21.200 I got to go with that. 03:52:21.760 --> 03:52:22.120 Nice. 03:52:22.540 --> 03:52:22.920 It's awesome. 03:52:24.540 --> 03:52:25.000 Oh, cool. 03:52:25.140 --> 03:52:32.300 Well, Dennis, you want to, I don't know, mention anything about the new Ghostbath album or give some like website links, social media. 03:52:32.940 --> 03:53:02.260 and let people know where you are and how to find you. Sure. Yeah. I made a website this time around. It's just selfloather.com. You can get to every other social link, every preorder page, whatever you need from there. Otherwise, if you just search Ghostbath on Facebook, Twitter, it'll come up. If you follow us on Instagram, sometimes I'll get really drunk and go live on there and talk to people. I'll bring people on the live and chat with them and stuff. But it's usually really late. 03:53:02.400 --> 03:53:32.060 So it's like people from England and stuff. Yeah, it's fun. I'll just go outside and, you know, talk with people. That's cool. I didn't even know that. That's great. Yeah, yeah. I don't like announce it or anything. I'll just like randomly go live and whoever shows up shows up. I think Instagram like lets people know that I went live or whoever's following. Yeah, you get a message. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just follow us on there. That's where we I post everything to, you know, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. So yeah. 03:53:32.220 --> 03:53:59.960 Those are the main links. And album comes out October 29th. We don't have any like tours lined up or anything, but if anything comes up, we'll definitely announce it there. You pumped though, dude? Your fucking album's coming out. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, whatever. I don't know. We were trying to wait so we could tour, you know, with COVID and stuff, but things are pretty difficult right now to try to get on something new because everything's just getting pushed back from, you know, 2020. 03:54:02.240 --> 03:54:31.700 2021, like to 2022. So we're just, we'll find something to get on. I love playing live. So get on the Judas Priest 53rd anniversary, whatever tour 54th, whatever, whenever they finally get around to it. Oh, I'll get on that. Yeah. I mean, we like playing with like people of different genres and people you wouldn't expect us with. So if we can find something like that, yeah, we'd definitely jump on that. So yeah. All right. 03:54:32.240 --> 03:55:02.000 Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thanks man. Yeah. Great conversation. Dennis really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It was fun. All right. Can't wait for people to hear the album. Yeah. Go check it out. Pick it up. Definitely. All right. Thank you. And we are at the end. So everyone we will see you next time. All right. George. Have a good one. Good night. Bye. All right. Bye everyone. Thank you. See ya. All right. See ya. Thanks. 03:55:22.039 --> 03:55:24.840 I shivered 03:55:42.641 --> 03:55:43.980 Metal Heads Podcast. 03:55:45.530 --> 03:56:02.520 I just want to say, after listening to your show for 92 hours, 3 episodes, and half of one panopticon song, 82 minutes, I feel that there is only one thing I've learned about metal, and that is, metal has no emotion. 03:56:03.560 --> 03:56:08.000 Fuck you for making me feel emotion from this last episode.