WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:05.160 Metalhead Podcast, Metalhead Podcast, Go! 00:00:26.200 --> 00:00:28.100 You must deserve that. 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:30.640 You must deserve that. 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:32.920 You must deserve that. 00:00:36.360 --> 00:00:38.660 Now, here's the podcast. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.420 Metal Heads Podcast Go. 00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:42.220 Hello and welcome to the Metal Heads Podcast. 00:00:42.500 --> 00:00:43.280 My name is George. 00:00:44.160 --> 00:00:44.860 This here is Jay. 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:45.680 This is Will. 00:00:46.180 --> 00:00:46.760 This is John. 00:00:47.180 --> 00:00:47.760 This is Matt. 00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:49.340 This is Marcuson. 00:00:49.540 --> 00:00:50.860 And welcome to 2021. 00:00:52.440 --> 00:00:55.240 A new year that will hopefully be better than the last year. 00:00:55.320 --> 00:01:25.300 Although musically, last year was pretty damn good. If you listened to our last episode, you know that. So this episode, we have a couple of guests, and we are going to hop into that interview now. So let's just do that and let it roll. We are joined today by author and Decibel Magazine contributor Daniel Lake, as well as Nick Green, also a Decibel contributor. Back in November, Daniel released the USBM, A Revolution of Identity in American Blackness, 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:55.000 Black Metal Book. How are you guys doing today? Doing great. Wonderful. Thanks for joining us. How's everything? You guys are actually in the same room, which is like, I haven't been in the same room with anybody but my wife in like a year. So kudos to you to, I mean, not alone. We signed a blood pact not to pass COVID to each other. It's going well. What's the penalty if you do? COVID. 00:01:56.600 --> 00:01:57.420 Fair enough. 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:10.220 I mean, if look, if, if Decibel magazine is known for anything, it is, uh, its contributors, reckless bravery. 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:25.280 Well, you did come on the podcast tonight. So yeah, that's bravery itself. All right. So, um, this, my first question actually goes back a few months because before the book, 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:26.580 even came out. 00:02:28.220 --> 00:02:33.900 It was talked about on Facebook and people were like bitching about bands. 00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:37.260 Oh, this band and that band. 00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:42.300 And Albert was like, you know, making fun of people who were complaining about it. 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:44.300 And it's like, it hasn't even been released yet. 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:46.300 You don't even know what's in it or what's not in it. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:48.600 And, you know, trolls, fuck them. 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.120 But, you know, I mean, I love me some metalheads, but some people just like bitching for sake of bitching. 00:02:55.820 --> 00:03:22.780 So you say yourself at the beginning of the book, the list of bands included is far from exhaustive. So maybe people should shut up and read it first. But what I thought was funny is that some of the bands in the comments that I saw are actually in the book. Yep. I think they almost all were, weren't they? Yeah. The one that stuck out was Grand Belial's Key. I was like, somebody was like, and I was like, wait a minute. Did you even look? 00:03:22.820 --> 00:03:23.580 because there it is. 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:25.760 It's one of first bands mentioned. 00:03:26.020 --> 00:03:26.100 Yeah. 00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:27.660 Not that you should listen to them, but you know. 00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:30.220 So it's based on the, so I had the book in my hand. 00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:33.100 It's based on the cover, what you guys actually showed in the image. 00:03:33.230 --> 00:03:35.540 And I could say, oh, I could see where someone might say that. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:41.260 But if you looked at the book, that's a pretty exhaustive book for just like, what, 10 bands? 00:03:42.640 --> 00:03:48.460 So you would have to think that they would be smart enough to figure out that there'd be more than just what's on the back of the jacket itself. 00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:49.260 Yeah. 00:03:50.140 --> 00:04:19.260 Albert was nice enough to give us a digital promo of it so we could read it. However, I and obviously John and I think Will and some others have also ordered physical. I can prove it. I love it. Thank you guys. So what made you decide to write this book? I mean, the joy of jumping into this is important. 00:04:19.320 --> 00:04:48.440 that it was brand new. Nobody had taken this all the way to publishing before. I think it's been worked on before. There was somebody else I know of who was trying to work on a USBM book, but this was the first one with this history in it to get published. When Albert and I talked about it back in, I think, the fall of 2017, it was really exciting to me. 00:04:49.100 --> 00:05:16.860 to be the person to dig into it. I also love this stuff. My metal interests are pretty all over the board and confusing, and they don't really match up to what most other people like. So when lots of people say they love black metal, they're talking about the European stuff. And I'm saying, yeah, that's great. And I also love all these weird little American bands that are doing great things too. 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:46.740 Yeah. It sounds like you and I have similar tastes when it comes to music, because I hear that all the time on the podcast. Well, we're kind of, I mean, we're a special case, because a lot of us are very varied in the metal that we like. So, but a lot of people aren't like that. I've been listening to a lot of different metal. Dan, would you say that, like, black metal is your, like, if you can say number one genre, even though you just said you're kind of all over the place? 00:05:48.020 --> 00:06:16.800 Could you have written a book on doom metal? Or could you have written a book on... Your facial expression is like, am I going to? My go-to. I think yesterday, I found a doom record and I sent Albert a message. I was like, hey, you might dig this because you are into similar things. And he was like, yeah, you know, in the... 00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:40.160 Late 90s, when I consumed all this stuff without caring how good it was, sure. I was like, yeah, you're right. I have no interest in quality control when it comes to Doom. So yeah, Doom is probably my immediate go-to. But if you're going to take Doom and blacken it up a bit, that makes me even happier. 00:06:46.840 --> 00:07:11.640 that badge of courage to put out a book about U.S. black metal that for years, as you stated early in the book, kind of got looked upon as just not good. And almost like, well, you know what, I'm going to show you. I'm going to tell these stories and I'm going to prove the point that you're just a bunch of true with a V in the middle of the word fans. That is what it really is. 00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:43.520 I'll be honest I don't I didn't come at it like that I will say that's something that that I felt like I had to write but I think to come at it with the perspective that like I'm going to show all of you that it's good I mean maybe not that aggressive but to say hey I there's a story here to tell and I think you might want to hear it more of that that direction up yeah what were you gonna say I mean in that same vein I don't think Dan is trying hard in this 00:07:43.580 --> 00:08:08.760 book to prop things up that aren't good. From my personal perspective, there are acts, artists, and bands in this book that are not to my tastes and not conventionally good. The beauty of something like this and Dan's approach is that he lets the artists speak for themselves whenever possible. 00:08:13.520 --> 00:08:43.260 book, you realize, wow, there are some bands in the U S that have incredible catalogs that while they're known, they don't get put up at the top with some of the other bands from Europe. And you would think that they would because their catalogs are that good. So I, I, I have an issue. My reason I'm asking is because I have a big issue with the true quote unquote fan. I get annoyed with that sometimes I'm a big prog nerd and I hate prog nerds because, you know, 00:08:43.539 --> 00:09:13.500 of King Crimson did it shit you know so I'm looking at it that way for black metal that's why oh and the true thing is the true thing is nationalistic I mean it really is it looks down on people just because they're not from the right fucking country well yeah there's some amazing stuff that's come from the US you know there's canon too like yeah like I would say that Decibel Magazine is as a collective you know broad tastes and really thoughtful about 00:09:13.540 --> 00:09:15.200 about what's good. 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:22.960 And we did a, you know, top hundred black metal albums of all time, you know, some years ago. 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:32.300 And you look at the top 20, there might be one American record in the top 20. 00:09:32.540 --> 00:09:33.020 It's 20. 00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:34.340 Might be top 30. 00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:35.160 It's 20. 00:09:35.380 --> 00:09:35.940 No, it's 20. 00:09:36.040 --> 00:09:36.320 It's weekly. 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:36.760 Is it weekly? 00:09:37.800 --> 00:09:38.200 Yeah. 00:09:38.920 --> 00:09:40.020 I looked at that today. 00:09:40.260 --> 00:09:44.120 I wanted to specifically look at that because I remember that being the highest 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:48.700 U.S. band. That's what I thought. The weakling was the top one there. 00:09:49.820 --> 00:09:53.480 It's a good little blurb. Everybody should read that. Sorry, I wrote that. 00:09:59.960 --> 00:10:03.620 That's a good example of the question I'm asking because that weakling album is amazing. 00:10:04.660 --> 00:10:08.180 I think it is. I think that 00:10:08.180 --> 00:10:13.680 a lot of people would not consider it because it's not from Norway or Germany for that matter. 00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:27.060 But how do you how do you like I agree with you the weakling album is extraordinary but when you're talking about worldwide metal how do you put that above you know. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:36.960 I understand that point yeah I'm looking just I'm asking just for the credibility standpoint only that you know I don't think I think people dismiss it immediately. 00:10:37.100 --> 00:11:06.640 It's kind of like world football. While he's an American, he's got to suck. He's not a good player. I mean, when he's actually, the player might be great. That's the reason why I say that. Well, some of that is based on the mythology. Oh, of course. Norwegian black metal, that is emboldened by decades of stories and myth-making about it. When you use an example like Wee Kling, although that album, I agree, is incredible, and it's basically, 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:36.180 the Rosetta Stone of understanding everything in US black metal that came before it, like deciphering Vaughn, and then also opening a door to everything that followed or sprang from it. There is very consciously not a mythology surrounding that album because the people who made it rejected that concept, whereas a band like Mayhem totally invited it. 00:11:37.120 --> 00:12:06.520 And Euronymous was very conscious of things like that. Super. Yeah. You talk about a mythology around stuff. Mike Hill from Tombs asked me, he was like, so now we have a movie version of Lords of Chaos. You know, what do you see as far as like a movie for your book? And I was like, yeah, it'll be all church burnings. Well, that's funny about Weakling because that just proves the lightning strikes. 00:12:06.900 --> 00:12:36.480 approach. You know, it was that one random album that spurred on a ton of stuff after it. But you're right. There was nothing before it to actually back that album up for its history. The movie version of Dan's book is basically an hour and a half of nerds buying records at Aquarius. I have to tell you, I was going to bring up Aquarius. I live in the Bay Area and I was, and so I like the weekly, 00:12:36.680 --> 00:13:06.640 record and have liked it for a long time and i mentioned that only because i went into the aquarius one time and have you ever been in there i never went i don't think i have no well at first of all have you been to the website at least yeah yes the obsessive details that are written down they're on the records on every individual record handwritten are on there and i and i went in and i it was the first time i went to the record store and i told the guy what i liked and stuff and he reached up behind him and he grabbed the weekly record this was 10 15 years ago whatever 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:36.160 because he had something to do with it being put out, right? Was it Andy? You were talking about Andy doing that? Yeah. That's his label. Anyway, long story short, Aquarius is just a wonderful place to go. I'm not even sure if they're still open. I think they still are, but they might not be. In any case, that was my weekly experience. I learned about it from him. He handed it to me and I took it home. I was like, this is fucking great. Yeah, you should consider yourself really lucky, Jay. Yeah, that was a cool shot. That's a really hard album to get. That was a badass shot, though, too. 00:13:36.680 --> 00:14:06.440 Yeah. You know, I'm pretty obsessive compulsive about my metal collecting. And so it I'm always looking for new bands to check out. And and one thing I liked about reading this book was that there were actually bands I didn't know. Yeah. You know, like masochist. Yeah. Yeah. And I fucking love that. So I was like, wow, this is really good. That's really good stuff. And, you know, on the podcast, I'm I'm known for being a bit of a production snob. 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:35.740 You know, I'm like, you know, if it came out in the early 90s and it sounds like shit, okay, that's what it was. But it's 20 fucking 21 now. You know, everybody's got a computer. Fucking produce this shit. And I kind of rethought my opinion of that while reading this book because I was like, wow, there's some really cool stuff on here that sounds like absolute garbage. 00:14:36.660 --> 00:14:39.540 And from a production standpoint. 00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:42.620 In your opinion. 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:43.380 Well. 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:48.300 George is famous for calling out production. 00:14:48.540 --> 00:14:49.440 And then we're like. 00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:51.320 George the production list is really good. 00:14:52.660 --> 00:14:54.880 Definitely some of the earlier chapters of the book. 00:14:55.260 --> 00:14:55.560 You know. 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.060 Dan is interviewing bands that self. 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:00.460 You know profess like. 00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:02.020 I wanted this to sound like shit. 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:02.660 Yeah. 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:02.940 Yeah. 00:15:03.260 --> 00:15:03.400 Exactly. 00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:04.600 And I was like you know. 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:05.580 I mean. 00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:35.340 And I know, I'm not blind to the fact that there are bands putting out music today that they're like, we want this to sound crappy. But I'm just like, you know, that's been done. But I've kind of backtracked on that opinion now. And I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm okay with this now. And so there were a lot of bands, not a lot, but there were some bands in this book that maybe I knew about or just hadn't listened to because of the production that because of your book, I was able to now get into them. 00:15:35.820 --> 00:16:05.560 I'm, for the last couple years, I normally go through genre phases. I had a doom phase. I had a black metal phase. And for the last two, three years, I've been pretty hardcore death metal. I thought it was Taylor Swift, actually. And Taylor Swift, of course. Yes, I love Taylor Swift. Lady Gaga. And Lady Gaga. Madonna. But since starting this book, I've kind of gone into another black metal renaissance of like, okay, well, this is the stuff I didn't know. 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:34.819 I've been listening to before because it sounded not as produced or like atmospheric stuff bugs me I'm like I want production but now I've been listening to like Kralis and stuff and I'm just like fuck yeah this is awesome so thank you this is George's way of long explanation he wants to spoon with you now yeah if anything what the book has done is it's gonna get George to stop talking about production for the rest of us yes yes yes so no only only for American black metal he'll figure out something 00:16:34.820 --> 00:17:03.680 Yeah, at some point the jig's up, Jay. Well, Death Metal still needs production because muddy Death Metal just sounds like shit. So I'd like to throw out a question if I can, and I'm sure somebody else has this on the list, but it's, I'd really like to know how you got Tom Gabriel Fisher to do that forward and who set that up and did you talk to him and how did that come about? Nick slept with him. Yeah. Yeah, but who hasn't? Thank you, Nick. 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:34.400 Who is the big spoon? Albert in the decibel office has a phone kind of like Commissioner Gordon. The bathroom. The bathroom. The Fisher mansion. Hey, Tom, I know you're playing Roadburn this weekend, but could you be here on like the next day to play decibel? Thanks. No, I mean, Trypticon has played several decibel shows. Celtic Frost was featured in 00:17:34.420 --> 00:18:04.200 There's two Frost Hall of Fames. There's a Hellhammer Hall of Fame. Overall, Decibel has a pretty good relationship with Ian Christie and Bazillion Points. And Tom's books came out on that. There's also a version of Choosing Death on Bazillion Points. So there are multiple points of intersection. I would actually argue that that one was a no-brainer, whereas something, 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:34.400 like Albert scoring BBC DJ John Peel to do the forward for his book choosing death was a major coup yeah yeah that's a big deal well did you get to interact with Tom or did he read the book or did he did you just ask him to write something appropriate like I yeah I didn't really get to interact with him that really did happen through Albert because they are connected but you know but to to Tom's credit man 00:18:34.420 --> 00:19:04.300 He immediately responded to Albert with, that sounds great. I would love to do this. He just feels a warmth for Decibel and for Albert. And that really smoothed all that out. Awesome. That's very cool. I think the idea behind that, when trying to neck down on who would be an appropriate person to write the intro, was to find someone that was as avid a consumer of music as you guys are. 00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:34.120 And that is definitely Tom's whole thing. I mean, he still remains passionate about making music, but also experiencing it as a listener. So in that sense, that choice is also a no-brainer. He's correct. Also, I think, and you brought up Choosing Death, which I didn't know, was that also on another version than Bazillion Points? They did the latest one, didn't they? Feral House did the first. 00:19:35.400 --> 00:20:04.080 Decibel Books took a better bar. And if I get this right, Bazillion Points published the Spanish language version. And then now that the Decibel version is sold out, I think Bazillion Points is... Did they add like a couple extra pages or something on the new one, I think? Yeah, there's three different versions of it for collector scum. That kind of leads into a question I had, 00:20:04.100 --> 00:20:32.940 which is that Decelable Books is a relatively new venture. So what does it mean to you, Dan, to be a part of that early rollout and helping to set the book standard with USBM? I'm a very happy company man. Yeah, I have little to say about that. I think you're right. The books that have come out so far, the Paradise Lost book is very, very cool. 00:20:33.520 --> 00:21:02.340 So yeah, it's pretty neat to join and be part of that. Awesome. I'm going to go back two steps. I was going to make a point about the choosing death thing, and it's that in the imagery and choosing death and all those photographs Tom took back all those days ago with photographs that were taken of him, he really is the appropriate route of that Norwegian scene. That was one of the big things, at least visually, they were emulating. So I think it's another thing that makes him so appropriate to write the foreword for this. 00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:32.240 He's also just the godfather of all of this stuff in his way. So it's a great choice. Yeah, I mean, he's also an obvious choice in some ways and a not obvious choice in some ways. I think it would have been hard. It would have been a dunderheaded move to try to get some iconic musician involved with the Norwegian scene, that wave of black metal, to approach the U.S. scene because it was so, 00:21:32.480 --> 00:22:02.440 derided back at the time. So the choice was either someone who is more of an insider and all those folks are featured in the book or someone who is has a can have a more I guess objective view of it. Yeah. And he was so derided though too back then. Yeah. That's another thing. I mean that's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And destroyed and just you know. Yeah. It's hugely misunderstood. 00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:32.180 You know, not to keep going on just the forward, but the one thing that stuck out to me is that, so Thomas Gabriel Fisher, Warrior, is Swiss. Did anyone edit his intro or is his grasp of the English language that fucking good? Lauder. Yeah. Yeah. Weirdly enough, that's one of the things that stuck out to me. I was like, man, this guy's English is awesome. Like, he knows words. I don't know. 00:22:32.500 --> 00:23:01.500 Yeah, it's exceptional. I was working in Switzerland for a little while in Geneva in 2016. And they did a live event that was really cool in Zurich that fall. And Ian Christie from Bazillion Points, who was living in Switzerland at the time, interviewed Tom. And then directly following this interview, the action moved to a notorious porn theater, 00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:30.760 which had been set up to screen a Celtic Frost documentary and then lead directly into Trypticon doing an all-frost performance. So it's a long-winded story. The point was I got to see Ian Christie interviewing Tom in person and his English is flawless. But that's not unusual for the Swiss because there's three languages there. 00:23:30.920 --> 00:24:00.860 So it is a very global country. Yeah. You have the Swiss version of German, German, French, and probably a bit of Italian and English, but it just, yeah, it was, it just struck me that he, it wasn't just like, he's not making a mistake in grammar. He's, he's really reaching out there for like the dictionary and stuff. It was anyway, I don't want to. His book is like that. Did you, I now have to know what the documentary is? 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:30.420 It's the documentary. I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's the one that was filmed during the tour for Monotheus, where you see the breakdown in the band. It's on YouTube. Yeah, it's called Dying God. Yeah, yeah. It's Dying God Coming to Human Flesh. At least that's what they call it on YouTube. Okay, cool. That was a cool little name drop there. Story drop. I dig that. That's awesome. 00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:36.300 Yeah. Unexpected. This is what you got by letting me join Dan. 00:24:39.060 --> 00:24:45.060 So you guys got some great interviews in the book. What was it like to interview the bands and who were some of your favorites to talk to? 00:24:47.580 --> 00:24:54.560 Wow. It was amazing to talk to these people. Like I said, I've been into this stuff for years. 00:24:55.860 --> 00:25:25.580 And, you know, in the metal world, I think it's expected that we're all, you know, we all hang out together and there's not that veil between artist and fan like there is in, you know, pop music. That doesn't stop me from kind of being a complete fanboy about these people and, like, being so excited that people I respect, whose art I respect so much, you know, 00:25:25.700 --> 00:25:55.340 We'll get on the phone with me and chat. But yeah, like, talking to Austin from Panopticon was, that was not a sure thing for a long time. Finally, when it happened, we really hung out. It wasn't just an interview, and that was a lot of fun. You know, most of these interviews happened, you know, 00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:56.700 over long distances. 00:25:57.840 --> 00:25:59.920 But I actually got to sit down in a room. 00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:01.620 We might need to bleak this out. 00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:03.720 I'm going to say Deaf Heaven. 00:26:04.060 --> 00:26:06.860 I actually got to sit down in a room with the guys in Deaf Heaven. 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:08.840 I apologize if you need to bleak that. 00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:09.580 I get that. 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:12.140 You mean just because of saying the name? 00:26:13.560 --> 00:26:13.660 Yeah. 00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:18.280 I'm actually interested in that because I found, well, I'm not a fan, really. 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:19.200 I mean, I have some of their stuff. 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.900 I'm not a super fan. 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.040 But I found their section interesting hearing about all the stuff they went through. 00:26:25.120 --> 00:26:55.100 just to get to where they are. But they are a curse word on this podcast. Yeah. But it's interesting you talk to them. I would be interested in hearing that. So. Yeah, I got to I got to sit down in a room with them backstage while the first few acts of the the the decibel metal and beer fest were going on that day. So we had, you know, the wall rumbling because of the whatever band was playing at that time. And we were just hanging out and chatting about it. 00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:57.580 their music. That was a big deal to me. 00:26:57.790 --> 00:26:58.160 So, yeah. 00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:01.240 Was that up in the upstairs room? 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.640 The media room there? 00:27:02.780 --> 00:27:02.960 No. 00:27:03.250 --> 00:27:06.400 No, we were downstairs in the back. 00:27:06.780 --> 00:27:07.900 Directly behind the stage. 00:27:08.340 --> 00:27:08.720 Oh, wow. 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.180 Okay. 00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:09.280 Okay. 00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:09.620 Gotcha. 00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:10.180 Nice. 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:19.060 Hey, so, I mean, some of these bands are obvious choices for the book, but did you have a criteria for choosing who you wanted to have in? 00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:48.920 because I thought I read somewhere that the original version of this was a lot longer than what got published. You had a lot of stuff. So I'm curious about, I'm sure we all are, the criteria for choosing outside of the obvious choices. And who were some of the bands that hit the cutting floor? Or can you not say? Maybe you don't want to say that. Is there a volume two coming? Yeah, that's another question. But I'm curious to see what bands that you wanted to see. 00:27:49.080 --> 00:28:19.060 at least get a blurb because George and I had this conversation some bands got real long sections and some bands didn't I realized that's part of the interview process obviously like a band like weakling didn't make it easy for you and they didn't want to do it well because you brought that up I want to break in I wanted to know when when you received John Goddard's Kurt email response were you at all tempted to be like fuck you then no chapter for you no you know like the soup Nazi it's kind of badass 00:28:21.080 --> 00:28:26.360 I'm sorry. I take it personally when people don't want to talk to me. I'm like, fuck you then. 00:28:27.120 --> 00:28:44.760 I kind of laughed when I read that. I'll be honest. I was bummed about that. I really was. Certainly not to the level of thinking of cutting them from the book, but every person who was willing to talk to me gave the book more authenticity. 00:28:44.880 --> 00:29:14.580 Yeah. And so every person who wouldn't, you know, kind of dragged away from that. And to not get someone from Weakling to talk about Weakling really bummed me out. And I was feeling really bad about it. And I sent it off to Albert saying, hey, I don't think we're going to get this. This is what I got from John Gossard. And it was Albert who was like, that is gold. Yeah. It actually is. Yeah. It really is. So he turned me around on that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:44.580 I wasn't surprised by that personally because we tried to do a week-lang Hall of Fame like 10 years ago and didn't get past talking to Andy Connors. So Dan's gotten more in this exercise than we got 10 years ago. So Nick, can we revisit that later? Because that's a question I actually had for you about the Hall of Fame. I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you. All right. So I think I'm really curious about Dan's response to the original question that was posed, but I want to quickly, 00:29:46.620 --> 00:30:14.660 So he has a minute to collect his thoughts. In reading this or reading about it, for you guys from the podcast, did you feel that there are any notable omissions in the book? Things that you were expecting that you wanted to see that weren't there? Well, it's funny because, you know, we asked you to do a top five and we're going to be doing one afterwards as well. And so I, 00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:44.540 I kind of was like going through like all the U.S. black metal band on the beer. Sorry. U.S. black metal bands that I know and like looking for lists of ones that maybe I hadn't thought of. And I was like, no, there's really nothing on here that like no, no glaring emissions for me anyway. I mean, I look at when I look at a book, I look at that as art. And so I wouldn't look at a painting and think like, gosh, I wish you would have added this to it or taken this out. Like I read it and I thought, this is what you wrote. It's fabulous. You know, I, 00:30:44.600 --> 00:31:14.580 I wasn't worried about what was you know seeing the stuff about bands that should be included I'm like you know I think somebody said well you should write your own black metal book and you can include those bands you know and so I thought it was a really great mix. I think the reason why I asked is because I had read that there was like what 700 plus pages and that's why I was curious like oh wow so who else did the interview and who else did they look at I'm fine with it I mean there's always going to be a band that you're like well what about this band we all have that that's 00:31:14.620 --> 00:31:44.500 It's natural for us because we all have our personal preferences. But I'm like, George, I'm like, and Matt, I'm fine with it. There's obviously bands I would love to have seen it, but you can't have everybody. You know, I understand that. I was just curious based on the fact that I read there's more material. That's all. Yeah. So since all these guys are cancer. Right. I mean, I think it's mentioned, maybe they're mentioned once. They're definitely mentioned in the book. I would have liked to see more. 00:31:44.600 --> 00:32:14.560 There's a chapter. It exists. It's a chapter, but it's just not in the book. Right. Nice. Which is totally okay. It's totally cool. Can you send it to me? And you can CC me on that, too. You know, even though these are the ones. But it'll have a big embossed Will Cook all over the front. It'll just say Margus on or Matt. You know, even though these are the ones, though, that were clearly edited from the side of the publishing, you and whoever you were working with. 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:44.580 I also really liked Albert's comment about this is gold. If you're going to write this kind of book about these kinds of bands, you need a couple of fuck yous in this thing. And that's really, I mean, there's your mythology right there. That's ironic that Weakling is anti-mythology and they give you a mythological answer. It's like a Jane to Jane award. But they were cordial. Thank you. I suppose, but still. But now they're suddenly. Yeah, go ahead. Jay, it wasn't Mayhem and 00:32:44.600 --> 00:33:12.960 What is it? Metal Headbangers Journey, where they get pissed off when they're hammering them. They'll tell Sam to go fuck himself, basically. Well, but ironically, I met Necrobutcher when he was signing his bazillion points, but he's the sweetest fucking guy I ever met. You know what I mean? Other than the fact that he was planning to drive down and kill Euronymous. Yeah. So now let's circle back again to your answer since you had your moment to think. Well, I do want to say like you asked, like, what would you like to see more in the book? And I actually have an answer. 00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:41.140 Because everyone else danced around and gave you some artful. Yeah, Yellow Eyes. I would be the first one to admit, and if you ever listen to this podcast, this would be no shock. I'm not the biggest black metal fan. I'm slowly growing into it. But I tend to like the more modern stuff. So I would have liked to, if you have a chapter somewhere, 00:33:44.060 --> 00:34:10.960 Iwata or Wayfarer, I think would be awesome. Iwata is in the book. Iwata is in the book. Yeah. Yeah, they are. Yeah, the whole ceremonial castings and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the reason why I dance around my answers, because some of mine are newer bands. I can't expect those to sometimes make a book where you're telling a full history from. I was surprised. I'd never even heard of ceremonial castings. And I was like, wait, what? 00:34:14.080 --> 00:34:40.500 I love that you brought up masochist and ceremonial castings because I think those two bands were fines for me while I was working on this book that I got so excited about because I hadn't heard of them and I guess I didn't expect to find a bunch of new music that I would love and the fact that it happened was very cool. Yeah. Another one. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. 00:34:43.200 --> 00:35:13.160 I may need my glasses. They don't have a chapter though. Yeah. Yeah. Am I missing a page? Will, why don't you go off the podcast and go read the book. We'll still be here. We'll probably be here. I mean, I think this is a really interesting. Page 284, Will. There you go. I know, I personally know the answer to what got 00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:20.220 because I asked Dan about it. Unfortunately, it's kind of like the briefcase in Repo Man. 00:35:23.540 --> 00:35:39.940 It's his information to share. What I will say about it is that there are some things that got cut from it because, not because they were unworthy, but because they represented newer and more recombinant forms of black metal. 00:35:40.060 --> 00:36:10.040 And the thought was that the story was yet to be fully written on those bands. So should there be a second version of USBM, which I'm sure there will be, you might see some of that cut material ending up in the revised. That was the reason for asking that question was, is there possibly future stuff maybe coming up? Yeah, well, you even mentioned at the end that like within a year or whatever, that everything in this is going to be, you know, out of date because there's going to be so much 00:36:10.080 --> 00:36:38.680 Yeah. Hopefully. Like that's what I say in the, at the end of the book is that's the best possible outcome is that this book becomes, you know, quaint and, and out of date. That would be good for the music scene. Yeah. You know, Nick, the reason why I asked that is because when we, when I put my top five together, one of my top five albums is a new album. And it made me think about newer bands and whether they should be included, were they included, not included. That's the reason that came up. 00:36:40.260 --> 00:37:09.060 I mean, that's great. I, and if your top five was all five new albums, that would be incredible too. Cause it documents and demonstrates that this genre is evolving and progressing and moving forward. Exactly. Yeah. I will say that all of my top five are in the book. All my top five are yellow eyes, which is not in the book. Just kidding. Something we didn't talk about. 00:37:09.180 --> 00:37:39.140 yet is how did you first get into black metal, Daniel? And you too, Nick. What was the band or experience that clicked with you first? I wanted to take that back all the way back to the metal in general, if I could just insert that. Oh, holy shit. Nick, go for it. For black metal? Both. I'm asking black metal and George wants to know. It just seemed like asking that, taking, you know, yeah. The black metal answer is easy. I can speak for 00:37:39.180 --> 00:38:09.140 because I also asked him this question last summer and we had the same answer which was the first record that each of us got in that genre for USPM that hooked us was Zaster's Subliminal Genocide. Weird. For USPM. So that was I think that was it for both of us in terms of exposing us to 00:38:09.180 --> 00:38:38.480 other things in that scene. I don't know. I mean, my story, my metal journey. We ask that of everybody. So it's kind of a stock question. But, you know, I mean, because we're all, most of us, pretty old. And, you know, we've been into metal since the 80s. And so it's... Seven days for some of us. Yeah. It's just, you know, it's a curiosity of like, well, what was, you know, 00:38:38.800 --> 00:39:08.780 Was Bon Jovi your first band? You know? I'm 46. I hated that shit. I thought it was for posers. And I could not stand glam. I also really was not into metal as a kid. As a kid, I liked hip hop. That's when, at the dawn of rap, that was the most exciting thing for me. We're talking about like early to mid to late 80s. 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:38.460 That's all I could listen to. I really, really loved Nucleus's jam on it. Love it. That was in, that was like sixth grade for me. I was like, this is the fucking shit. Uh, you know, alternative music and punk rock, including some things that may have been considered more metallic, like a faith no more, but nothing that was metal with a capital M. Um, I really couldn't get into it. I was not into the big four. 00:39:38.820 --> 00:40:08.780 All that stuff passed me by. I was not even into Guns N' Roses at that point. Then later, I pulled my hat out of my ass and kind of realized that there is incredible music to be made in almost any genre. And I started listening to things with more open ears. So the thing that pulled me into metal and got me interested in louder and more propulsive forms of music 00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:37.660 was really getting into noise and some hardcore punk. So twin passions like noise and then also things like negative approach. And then from there, I began to be able to appreciate more trad forms of metal. But for me, there's still things that I cannot stand. 00:40:38.820 --> 00:41:08.580 You will not get me to listen to a power metal record. Ever. No. Fuck power metal. No glory hammer, huh? Wait, even the ones that kind of cross over to trad metal, you won't give a shot. Especially those. I love to hear about the guys who come from the punk side, by the way. That's always interesting because that's not who I am. I'm thinking of Slayer right now, 00:41:08.660 --> 00:41:38.500 where Jeff Hanneman came from a punk side and Carrie King came from the other. That's always so interesting to me and so few of them can palette the swordplay. You know what I mean? They just can't go there. It's just like, because they're so much more socially, so there's so much such a social context to so many punk things. Even in the era of crossover with, you know, cryptic slaughter and suicidal tendencies and stuff like that, there's still deep-seated mistrust between the punks and the Longhurst. 00:41:38.660 --> 00:42:08.580 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. What do you think of that crossover stuff? Do you like it? But, you know, now I listen to it with different ears. I can appreciate a lot of that stuff. I got into punk because of metal. Because Dave Mustaine was like, you know, here's Anarchy in the UK. You know, and I'm like, oh, Sex Pistols. All right. And, you know, and I got to be a huge punk fan because of Metallica and Megadeth and Anthrax and stuff like that. I did because Dave Lombardo had a sticker and a DR. 00:42:08.620 --> 00:42:38.560 a record that said, hey, they're my favorite bands. So I bought dealing with it. But, you know, that's. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I mean, personally, you know, I got into metal before there was thrash. And and so I've had quite a journey from, you know, 70s stuff and early 80s pre thrash, like early metal blade bands in getting into thrash. And then in the 90s, well, late 80s. 00:42:38.620 --> 00:43:08.500 and nineties, I had a hard time transitioning into the more extreme stuff like death metal and black metal. And it took me a while, uh, probably like four or five years to kind of be like, well, you know, it's like, I was, I was too old in my twenties to get it. Ironically, George, that means the punks were more metal than you. Right. And, uh, and so, you know, just finding, you know, I mean, the people, 00:43:08.620 --> 00:43:37.060 I grew up with. Most of them don't listen to metal anymore because they couldn't make that transition from what we listened to back then into what's happening now. And to have all the guys I have on the podcast here that were actually able to do that, it's a rare thing. And so that's part of the curiosity, the question of being of a certain age and listening to all these years of metal, or perhaps not in your case. 00:43:38.260 --> 00:44:03.820 So with that, Dan, what's your answer? Yes, please. I was, I was interested, like you, you've talked about like getting into metal from the, like the hard rock and thrash side. You know, Nick talking about coming in through the punk hardcore side, but have you talked, you know, to anybody who's come in through the Rick Astley side? Yeah, actually Matt, that's our first Rick roll. 00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:12.760 I actually got into Rick through my wife. 00:44:14.220 --> 00:44:14.580 All right. 00:44:15.040 --> 00:44:25.480 I, you know, I, I did not grow up a, or a, I didn't grow up a music fan or listener in any, in any real way. 00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:32.980 Um, I, I listened to what was, you know, on the radio that, you know, my parents had on it. 00:44:33.020 --> 00:44:36.880 Just, uh, you know, I was fine with that. 00:44:38.440 --> 00:45:07.220 But I got deeper into listening to music and wanting to hear interesting music when I was in college. And I, you know, for a period of time there got angrier in college too. And so, you know, really rough stuff mattered to me. But even metal, so I'm going to echo some of what Nick said about the noise stuff. Even heavy music had a, 00:45:07.820 --> 00:45:35.460 an emotional content to it that when I was straying from pop music, I actually really wanted to not be told how to feel. And so I needed music that didn't necessarily have a clear emotional content. And so like, like weird, like he mentioned Faith No More, I'm going to say yes. Faith No More to Mr. Bungle to Fantomas to Boredoms. 00:45:35.700 --> 00:46:05.380 Yeah, like it was Mike Patton and his label that led me to John Zorn, that led me to Merzbaugh. And so I went like crazy, like into non-music basically, like something that was just harder to listen to than anything. So from there, anything with a beat, as fast as that beat might be, anything with chords in it, oh, well then I could understand it as music and musical. 00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:35.500 And so it became easier to like to ease back into metal. And then I mean that's actually really interesting because I can relate to that. A big part of the allure of Hydra Head was like Mike Patton working with Dillinger Escape Plan and then having Isis and Ipacac. So those things are inextricably linked. And then from there you see further connections. You have like 00:46:35.520 --> 00:46:45.620 Oxbow, a band like that, on Hydrahead, but also being an OG band on SST, which opens the door to stuff like St. Vitus. 00:46:46.150 --> 00:47:05.500 Yeah, well, that's because Aaron Turner was a huge fan of theirs, and he did that. He used that label for that reason. He went out and got a lot of his heroes, but, you know, I'll tell you what's striking to me as we have this conversation, and I'm not surprised by this, that black metal is one of the, you know, arguably least 00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:35.500 and also you could argue it takes the least amount of classical musical talent and yet it always the most interesting conversations i have that are at this level of intellectual kind of thought about where you're coming from really happen in the black metal genre which is so i i think that's an identity crisis thing that i don't even know how black metal deals with that and how fans deal with that and how the guys who deal with that who are trying they're kind of doing these think 00:47:35.540 --> 00:48:00.160 pieces. And yet, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm sure you do, because you just wrote this book. It's such an odd thing. And I just, it's so funny to watch this, how you guys both came to black metal. And it's funny that it's like one of the most extreme forms, but it's not necessarily populated by the Judas Priest fans, you know, and all that stuff. Instead, it's all these people who come from all these different intellectual places, but are thinkers. Let's put it that way. I think that's what I'm trying to say. 00:48:00.220 --> 00:48:29.840 I think you see that very clearly in the chapter of USBM about Adam Bartlett in Gilead Media. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting to me. And that's just odd. And that's why it's why Death Heaven is this weird untouchable band, by the way, and seen as an untouchable band by the true black metalheads. And it's because they are that. They seem as if they don't belong here, but they see something larger. I don't know how to explain it. I'm not. That's not a big pitch for Death Heaven. 00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:33.640 I'm just loving this conversation. It's kind of funny how metal in general 00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:38.220 is like, we're all about our freedom and everything, but you have to be 00:48:38.540 --> 00:48:40.460 exactly like this or else fuck you. 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:47.420 I never understood this with something like USBM, which is still a nascent genre. 00:48:47.870 --> 00:48:51.180 Like, who is the us and who is the them? 00:48:51.540 --> 00:48:55.200 Why is it that a band like Death Heaven is considered outsiders? 00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.580 It's all outsiders or all insiders. 00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:01.620 It's so decentralized 00:49:02.230 --> 00:49:04.640 But isn't that quintessentially American too? 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.260 Isn't that how it has to be if it's an American thing? 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:08.240 Sure 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.600 I mean, maybe not 00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:10.620 I'm just talking 00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:11.980 But I mean, that's interesting 00:49:12.200 --> 00:49:13.640 It's interesting that it lacks identity 00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:14.540 It's a melting pot 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:17.860 Certainly the scale of a country like America 00:49:18.390 --> 00:49:20.100 In comparison to Norway 00:49:21.180 --> 00:49:22.580 Adds dimensions to this 00:49:22.940 --> 00:49:23.560 Is it just me? 00:49:23.640 --> 00:49:25.640 Or are we figuring out the fucking world here right now? 00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:29.300 I mean, it just comes down to whining, basically 00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:58.980 is what it is. Let's be honest. Which brings us back to the We Clean album. I think that's a good point, Jay, because I think with a lot of these bands, at least when you get further into the book, they don't follow the traditional formula of black metal. They come from different places. They play different things. And I think that's what gets back to my original question way back when we started about the reasons of showing or writing this book is that American U.S. black metal is, 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:27.680 Really, there's no formula. It comes from, at least at a certain point, after a certain period, it's just a free-for-all. There's a lot of bands. There's some bands. I discovered some bands, and I'm just like, oh, fuck, how did I miss this? Wait, they're not traditional black metal. But they're black. Yeah, that's the band, exactly. But they're still black metal, though. I think that's what's different about it. 00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:57.700 That's why I, and I'm like, George, I drove, I just jumped down the rabbit hole big time for stuff that I missed out on. There's nothing consistent about U.S. black metal. It's all over the fucking place. It's everywhere, which makes it even more interesting, I think. Not a heterogeneous population. No, I mean, it has its traditional stuff, but then at some point it just, it goes off the rails and incorporates a lot of interesting things that make it. I think that's what's cool. 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:27.880 about USBM, you know, is that it took that traditional black metal and just developed it into these, all these other different genres and sub genres and just added to it and keeps adding to it. And that's why you need almost a second volume because it keeps evolving. And that's the fun thing about it. Austin, I think the best quote outside of Weakling saying we're not participating. Thank you very much. If you haven't figured out yet, Weakling is going to keep coming up as long as this thing 00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:57.820 But was Austin's comment about how people talked about the album Kentucky? Oh, it's just redneck black metal. But when you go back and listen, that's pretty cut, not cutting edge, but it's just so far out there. Nobody else was doing something like that. I mean, well, no, I think the Norwegian bands were, I think he just said, I'm going to do this here. You know, I mean, when you look at other L.W. It's traditional. The idea of incorporating Appalachian type music into black metal, I guess is what I'm saying. I would say traditional folk. Go ahead. Well, I would say bluegrass. 00:51:57.900 --> 00:52:27.180 Yeah. You know, it's like a sore. Thanks to Will finding out that that's how you say the name. You know, from Scotland. He incorporates a lot of Scottish sound. I find that way more interesting now with black metal bands to incorporate what's local to you as opposed to following the traditional style. And I love traditional style black metal, too. Don't get me wrong. I like something that's different, though. That's the point of me just rambling on about this. You guys are about to say something. Yeah. 00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:57.880 I was just going to say that like what betrays the lie of all those people shouting you know stupid you know hillbilly black metal for that record is that that's not the first time he used that I know exactly just because he called it Kentucky you know I and has a coal miner on the cover right well that's it right like like people will will will shoot at the most shallow stuff yeah without without no I mean it's also one of his first 00:52:57.900 --> 00:52:59.040 most popular records. 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:03.360 So it's going to take fire for that reason, too. 00:53:04.460 --> 00:53:07.640 But yeah, these are people who they're not going down the rabbit hole. 00:53:07.900 --> 00:53:10.580 They they're not listening to music. 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:20.380 I don't know any more deeply than just for long enough to say something out loud so that other people will hear them. 00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:21.220 Posers. 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:29.020 Yeah, I always saw them as people who either A, didn't want to get out of their comfort zone, or B, they don't understand it. 00:53:29.540 --> 00:53:44.680 Well, so here's an interesting thing, though, because here I am, like I was saying, that it's like a lot of the thinkers end up winding up in this. But the opposite is true, too. It's also, it's a strange draw for people who can, who find Inquisition's message, you know, meaningful. 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:45.420 Yeah. 00:53:45.560 --> 00:53:46.480 or whoever it is. 00:53:46.570 --> 00:53:50.240 And that's not a complicated message. 00:53:50.560 --> 00:53:55.680 It's a very simple bullet point bullshit thing that you can sell somebody on. 00:53:56.140 --> 00:53:59.960 And it's so funny that this one genre is so capable of doing both of those things. 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:01.460 And I don't know why that is. 00:54:01.470 --> 00:54:03.600 I would be curious to know what the fuck makes that true. 00:54:05.799 --> 00:54:09.780 And it plays out as this whole sort of like weird silo thing where it's like, 00:54:09.940 --> 00:54:11.140 don't go left or right. 00:54:11.260 --> 00:54:12.840 You're a fucking poser if you do this or that. 00:54:13.020 --> 00:54:13.700 That's so odd to me. 00:54:15.140 --> 00:54:44.420 I don't understand it actually. So as a, Hey, Nick just went out and got Dan a beer. Let's do a t-shirt and beer check with Dan and Nick. Oh, what are we drinking? Okay. What are you drinking? And what are you wearing? I can see what Dan's wearing. Who are you wearing? I'm wearing a hoodie and a kilt featuring the tartan of my Scottish clan. Is that true? Oh, wow. What's your Scottish clan? Well, no, hold on. 00:54:45.160 --> 00:55:15.100 Give us a spin. You don't have to stand up. That's cool. I have one. So I was just curious. All right. So Dan and I both started with a bohemian pills from Aslan called the fragile kind. Here we go. Easy drinking style Pilsner. Pretty good. Well, I'm curious. Did you guys are you guys Pilsner fans? And what do you think of 00:55:15.140 --> 00:55:45.100 Gaslin's Pills. Very drinkable. Crushable. Okay. See, now I don't know how to take Will's comment. Okay. I mean, I'm not a good fan of Pillsner either, but... Like steeped in something. Yeah. Right, no. You tell. I felt judgmental. Well, the reason I say is because... Oh, no, I'm not saying shit right now. No, Will and I are in the same camp. He knows better than I do, obviously. If you can make it good Pills, you're a good person. 00:55:45.140 --> 00:55:45.600 A. Good Bre 00:56:15.120 --> 00:56:44.400 I mean a kill is amazing. You guys fit in perfectly on the podcast. Sounds like we need to end this interview very quickly because they have something else to do. The kill is a belly rub and a breeze combined. It's so good. Well, I was going to say, USBM is a pretty thick book and you guys have mentioned that there's interviews that got caught in it. So I wanted to know how long it took you to write the book and how did the pandemic affect you when you were working on it, particularly getting interviews? 00:56:46.240 --> 00:57:13.820 Sure. So most of the interviews were done by the time the pandemic hit. I, like I said, Albert and I first started talking about it the fall of 2017. The first interview that I did first, the first one that came together was in February of 2018 with Jeff Whitehead from Leviathan. 00:57:16.060 --> 00:57:45.080 So, yeah, it was about two and a half years from the first interview to publishing. It was a huge amount of work. And, you know, during that time, I was also teaching high school full time. And so it was really hard for me to make time a lot. A lot of those months, it was tough to find the energy to, 00:57:45.080 --> 00:57:48.340 for the book. So I hate saying this, the, the, 00:57:48.340 --> 00:57:53.400 the pandemic is an awful situation and lots of people have struggled and lots of people have been hurting. 00:57:55.440 --> 00:58:05.180 I needed it. Like, it's almost like, it's almost like that time was, was what gave me the opportunity to have the energy. 00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:12.980 Yeah, no, that's legit. I can see that. That totally makes sense. Yeah. Are you, are you teaching online? 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:43.820 Yeah, I've been teaching virtually. And I was teaching virtually through the spring also. But just the not having to make the commute and all that, doing things virtually just freed up some of, like I said, some of my energy. Not so much my time. I was still sinking time into my job. But it didn't require the huge amounts of energy that it usually does and will, again. 00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:44.680 in the near future. 00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:45.700 Yeah. 00:58:46.020 --> 00:58:47.140 Hey, here's a question for you. 00:58:47.380 --> 00:58:50.420 Do any of your students, do they know who you are? 00:58:51.340 --> 00:58:52.960 Do they know how cool you are? 00:58:53.260 --> 00:58:53.320 Yeah. 00:58:53.540 --> 00:58:54.920 Do they know how cool you are? 00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:57.760 They, they know me better than you do. 00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:01.440 So they are aware of how not cool I really am. 00:59:02.520 --> 00:59:03.320 What do you teach them? 00:59:03.500 --> 00:59:04.800 What, what, what, what, what do you teach? 00:59:06.020 --> 00:59:06.380 Metal. 00:59:06.600 --> 00:59:07.500 I just talk about metal. 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:08.300 That's cool. 00:59:09.760 --> 00:59:11.280 Metal and church burning. 00:59:11.700 --> 00:59:13.420 That's a church burning 101. 00:59:13.560 --> 00:59:43.360 Yeah, I teach math and English. Okay. Nice. No, but are any of your students like metalheads? No. What? Well, not anymore. There was a crop. Did you kill them? Like when they found out, did you kill them? They're in the closet. They're in the closet. There was a group a couple years ago, probably five, six, seven students. 00:59:43.540 --> 01:00:09.860 who were really into interesting music, not just metal. They were like turning me on to things outside of metal that I thought were really interesting. And for three years, we had an extreme music club. And it was a great time. Actually, this Jane Doe banner was given to me by one of those students. Awesome. And those were awesome people. 01:00:13.540 --> 01:00:14.460 They all graduated 01:00:15.080 --> 01:00:16.380 and nobody else took their place 01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:17.020 and that was it. 01:00:17.020 --> 01:00:17.600 The club died. 01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:18.100 Wow. 01:00:18.100 --> 01:00:20.040 So I have a hopeful prediction though. 01:00:21.060 --> 01:00:22.900 The band Leonard Skinner named their band 01:00:23.140 --> 01:00:25.260 after their, what, gym teacher or something. 01:00:25.340 --> 01:00:27.340 So I'm hoping those kids go out, form a band 01:00:27.520 --> 01:00:29.100 that will be called Daniel Lake. 01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:29.400 Yeah. 01:00:31.040 --> 01:00:33.260 Which actually has kind of a spooky sound to it. 01:00:33.420 --> 01:00:34.020 Daniel Lake. 01:00:34.180 --> 01:00:35.500 That's a good black metal band name. 01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:37.360 That's a good black metal band name. 01:00:37.560 --> 01:00:39.260 Opening for Abigail Williams. 01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:40.220 Yeah, yeah. 01:00:40.700 --> 01:01:10.000 If you guys want to start a metal club, Dan has experience running one. For like six-year-olds. Well, you know, if we can get James in the area, we can, you know, we got to do something. He's, yeah, he's the right guy. You know, we don't often get, we do this usually at the end, but I just got to stop and tell you, I think you guys are a fucking treat, dude. I'm loving having you guys on here. You are fun to talk to, man. I've still got like a million questions, so I hope you don't have plans. 01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:11.060 Start asking. 01:01:12.120 --> 01:01:12.580 All right. 01:01:12.700 --> 01:01:15.580 I've been skipping around because of based on other people's questions. 01:01:17.100 --> 01:01:20.340 I think what I'll do next is talk about a couple of the bands that I really liked in the book. 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:23.560 I loved the chapter on Cobalt. 01:01:24.820 --> 01:01:31.240 Slow Forever is one of my favorite albums of the past decade, although you seem more taken with earlier material. 01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.780 But what was it like talking to Eric? 01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:39.520 And do you think that he's got any new material coming with this downtime? 01:01:40.599 --> 01:02:07.320 That was the end of that? Whether you're aware of him having any new material. I think it was actually kind of, it might have been mentioned that he was working on stuff in the book. I thought they were, or he was, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's in the book. Yeah, I thought so. I'll leave it there. That's fair. Obviously, you can't spoiler anything or talk about things. Answered. 01:02:09.580 --> 01:02:38.460 But anyway, you know. Thank you, Daniel. TBD. What was it like talking to Eric? It was cool. Yeah, that was a very late addition. In fact, I'm so glad to hear you say that you like the Cobalt part because that chapter was originally written way more like the Judas Iscariot chapter or the Weakling. 01:02:38.600 --> 01:03:08.520 Well, not even the weakling chapter, because that even has some quotes from people, or the demency chapter. I didn't have Eric for a long time. In fact, I turned in the manuscript. Really? Wow. Without having him, and he contacted us, and we set it up, and I talked to him, and I dug back into it, and rewrote 01:03:08.560 --> 01:03:38.280 that so that it could be part of the book. And I agree with you. It's so, like, it's incredibly better now than it was in its original form. So I'm really happy that it works. It was a very quick suspense thing, if I remember correctly. Like, Dan had an original deadline. It got pushed back a little bit. He turned in this manuscript, and then that chapter looked a little different. And then maybe two days later, this opportunity, 01:03:38.560 --> 01:04:05.860 came up, book went back to Dan. And then I think you turned that chapter around within days. So you really didn't, even including that, it created more work for you, but you didn't blow past your deadline that much. No, that's true. That's absolutely true. I remember Dan saying, cause I was talking to him when this happened, God, I hope no one else contacts us after I turn in this. 01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:37.980 You know, it raises the question in my mind, too, since you've talked to so many diverse people, that I imagine the answer is diverse as well. But how, you know, how did you have a kind of like, how am I going to get a hold of all these people? Did you have, did you try to do a lot of it through Albert? How did you reach out to people? So, so yeah, I mean, some of it was through Albert. He was very helpful in getting me some contact information. Some of it was through, like, PR people who I'm already in contact with. 01:04:38.560 --> 01:05:08.240 for some of these people. Yeah, that was, I don't know. Well, I think a big part of it was Neil Jamison. Oh, Neil, yeah. Neil Jamison from Krieg was one of my very early contacts. He helped at the very beginning, at the very beginning of the process, he helped, I guess, so the question was asked, how did I decide who should be in the book? And part of the answer to that is, 01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:35.600 Neil helped give me a sense of like these are the people who you should really consider talking to these are the bands that have been really impactful over time because that guy has been in this this he's been steeped in this forever yeah is that because everybody's played with him too he's ubiquitous in the book and as you read through it you see him popping up in certain chapters kind of like Woody Allen and Zelig 01:05:37.700 --> 01:05:43.040 I was half expecting Neil Jameson just to pop up in like the liturgy chapter 01:05:45.840 --> 01:06:05.580 you know he's kind of your deep throat a little bit it sounds like to me it's funny because when I was reading it and I've met Neil once when we did the uh the decibel decibrew um for the metal beer fest I don't know whatever like how many years ago and and Neil came down to um Neil and Albert uh came 01:06:05.620 --> 01:06:08.280 to Charlottesville when we did it at Champion Brewing Company. 01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:12.920 And so I met Neil and, you know, fun dude to hang out with. 01:06:12.930 --> 01:06:14.280 So I got to know Neil a little bit. 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:19.700 But I realized, like, in the very early chapters, he was mentioned a lot. 01:06:20.380 --> 01:06:25.800 And then he, Krieg's chapter is quite long because obviously you know him. 01:06:26.310 --> 01:06:29.600 Like, so you had a lot of material to work with there. 01:06:30.100 --> 01:06:58.040 I found the Krieg chapter very, probably very cathartic on his part, because he's just telling you like how much he sucked for such a long time until he, you know, he got, got everything together. Anyway, I just, anyway, I, it's interesting to hear how much Neil was in the early part of the early part of the book and throughout the book and then how long of a chapter he has. So he's also, it makes sense now that when you say he was a pretty big proponent in the book. 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:27.640 Yeah, he's, I mean, you're right. So not only, it's not even so much that he has a connection to Decibel, which he does, but he just, he's a writer. He happens to be particularly eloquent. So not only did he talk to me two different times for a really long time, but like everything he said was strong. So it was a matter of like, what can I keep? 01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:58.360 What do I have to get rid of? Because everything was great that he talked to me about. I'm wondering if you were left after this process with a bunch of contacts on your phone that you're very proud to have and feel like you should never use. I've got to feel that. Can we call someone out? Just pick it up and push a random button, man. Let's do it. Let's get the Leviathan on the phone. We've tried that before. We tried actually in the middle of a podcast, we tried to call 01:07:58.420 --> 01:08:27.839 Adam Tepedellan one time. And he's like, nope, I'm not answering my phone. You guys, you mentioned writing just now. I know that, Daniel, you've been a writer at Decibel for 10 years now, over 10 years. And I know, Nick, you've been there for a while. So how did you guys even hook up with Decibel to begin with? Nick is a, like, OG. Nick's been there since its inception, since before its inception. Go ahead, man. Okay. 01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:58.319 Oh, right. I was around when it was created. So Decibel Magazine was published by an entity called Red Flag Media. Prior to this, it doesn't exist anymore. They published a in-store record store magazine called Stereotype, which originated in the Gallery of Sound Chain in Kingston, Pennsylvania near Wilkes-Barre. 01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:28.160 And then eventually spread out throughout the country. So like, Grey Whale had it, Soundgarden in Baltimore carried this magazine. It was just like this thing that you could pick up, like Pulse for Tower Records. So... What year was that? Maybe 1998 or so. I hooked up with them. And through that, Albert became the editor. He was a very early employee of that company. 01:09:28.400 --> 01:09:58.340 So he was my editor at this general purpose music magazine. And he usually did the metal reviews. And eventually he started assigning them out to a few other people who were early contributors to the magazine. So one of them is Rod Smith, who is still around. He was at that magazine. Another person recruited early on was Nick Terry, who was a former editor of Terrorize. 01:09:58.420 --> 01:10:26.480 Also a very early decibel contributor. So through that magazine, he started work. He basically took kind of a sabbatical, started working on Choosing Deaf. Choosing Deaf opened up a conversation about having a newsstand extreme music magazine. It was based on the early reception to that book, which was enthusiastic. 01:10:27.740 --> 01:10:56.980 So, I don't know, summer 2004, they developed a prototype. That prototype was really just recycled content from Stereotype Magazine. And then they started assigning out content for issue number one. And Nick, Terry, me, Rod Smith got brought along from the magazine, along with a guy named Chris Kay, who, 01:10:57.740 --> 01:11:27.700 wrote about like DVDs and video games for a column that was discontinued. And then they assembled some other people that were notable in terms of freelancers like Jay Bennett, Kevin Stewart Panko, and then a whole bunch of other people that aren't around anymore. And then gradually added more and more people to the fold. So I've known Albert personally for a very long time and professionally for a long time. 01:11:28.220 --> 01:11:57.380 And he just kind of brought me along and used me to plug in holes early on. That's what she said. And then just sort of trusted that voice would be complimentary for the rest of the magazine. You know, listening to this story, that was fascinating, partially because I just watched the Cream magazine movie. Did you watch this yet? Yes, I backed that on Kickstarter and have the mug. It's amazing. That was so good. And without the drugs and interpersonal stories, 01:11:57.500 --> 01:12:27.460 you basically just told that story so it was fun to hear how that came together that was really interesting to me so no comment on the drug part if you want that story you need to talk to jay bennett i think i mean no i think we need to make a cream magazine style documentary about this about decibel at some point you guys just get somebody arrested so that we can get somebody interested in doing this yeah i don't i don't think it was that scandalous because um 01:12:27.480 --> 01:12:52.860 A lot of us were already in our early 30s at the point. I mean, I think I was 29 when the magazine started, already married, since divorced. Like, we had some miles on our tires. So it was going to have a different voice. But that voice, I think, was steeped in things like Cream Magazine. 01:12:54.280 --> 01:13:23.360 And two degrees spin magazine and Rolling Stone, but also absolutely the early years of Terrorizer, Metal Maniacs during its classic phase, Metal Forces. Oh, Metal Forces. I was a big Metal Forces guy. I used to love that magazine. It was hard to find. I couldn't always find. Just to go back real quick, obviously you liked the cream thing. Wasn't that great, that documentary? I fucking loved that, dude. Yeah, I mean, 01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:53.160 And I did read it as a kid. You know, I didn't buy every issue, but I bought it. And I just loved how irreverent it was about every fucking thing. I need to say that. I mean, that's so good. That's I mean, I think of Dan as a pretty droll, funny person. I don't take life too seriously. That is something that we value, like both value about the early years of decibel. It's still there. Yeah, I think. 01:13:53.620 --> 01:14:17.760 We're almost 200 issues in at this point. So it occupies a very different place in the market. Some of its competition is long gone. So in some ways over time, it's adopted a more, I don't know, authoritative. Get off my lawn vibe. I'm down with the get off my lawn. 01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:27.380 for the most part there's not there there really isn't wasn't a lot of really good ones 01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:32.780 for my thinking and you might be able to quote some that i couldn't but um at this point i'm 01:14:32.780 --> 01:14:38.300 wondering are there any ones like is there any metal magazine still in existence you know what 01:14:38.300 --> 01:14:42.260 there's a new one i like and i wonder if you guys have seen it called iron hammer still comes out 01:14:42.700 --> 01:14:45.960 there's one called iron fist that's coming out of england i think right now metal hammer and 01:14:45.980 --> 01:15:13.860 The Terrorizer is gone. They're not good. Metalhead. Okay. We launched. All right. I think, I mean, Dan and I are both decibel loyalists and we don't really freelance for other extreme music publications at this point. And we are contractually obligated not to talk about the company. No, I don't have any insight or experience into what's going on there. I think. 01:15:15.980 --> 01:15:45.940 We would both say that a lot of that space that was formerly occupied by print magazines has just moved to the web. So that has exploded. There's an infinite number of resources for gossip about metal. Oh, metal sucks. I'm sorry. Is that what you're saying, metal guy? Blabber shit. Well, I think what's interesting, what you're talking about, Nick, is that the magazine was started by people who are a little bit older. And I think that's what I 01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:51.480 It's like you've had all this experience in metal before the magazine even started 01:15:52.320 --> 01:15:54.580 and a lot of these other magazines they kind of embrace 01:15:55.380 --> 01:15:59.360 I don't know more like popular culture or something and Decibel hasn't really 01:16:00.200 --> 01:16:04.000 done that you know sometimes once in a while it does but for the most part 01:16:04.460 --> 01:16:08.880 you know it's it's pretty true to metal and we appreciate that a lot 01:16:09.300 --> 01:16:11.600 and the magazine if we don't agree with all the picks or 01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:40.820 or whatever. It doesn't matter. It definitely feels way different than any other magazine. And it's maintained that identity all these years. Well, I think the identity of the magazine is represented by the kaleidoscopic voices they're in. So it doesn't represent a monoculture. It's not one united voice. There are tons of dissenting opinions. And also from the get-go, 01:16:42.200 --> 01:17:10.760 No one took themselves too seriously. So even in issue number one, there's a lot of goring of sacred cows. You know, your endless tells the tale of the lots of chefs in the kitchen for sure. And we've said that for a while. You know, it's funny. I had meant to say something a while back in the interview when you were talking about the difficulty in approaching the more extreme music for some of the traditional metal fans versus the punk fans. And I'd forgotten that. 01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:40.640 But Albert tells that story himself in the death documentary about his first approach to that. And when he first heard, I think it was leprosy or something, he was like, ah, this isn't for me. Like, this is too much. I can't go here. So that's interesting that this man who you work with, who we see is a bit of an authority, by the way, I think. Yeah, cool. Wow, it's so fun to see the inside workings. I have to say, I agree about, 01:17:41.360 --> 01:18:10.620 The magazine to me doesn't break itself by trying to do something that it's not. But I always love the fact that there's a beer section. I even brought up when we interviewed Albert, I was like, I was really into your preview for baseball every year when you used to do it way back when I was like, because I fucking love baseball. And I was like, Albert is a diehard Phillies fan. I was like, here we go. I want to hear what he has to say. And I say, man, if they diss the Giants, I'm going to be pissed. I'm like, well, I can't argue. 01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:40.660 the opinion. I kind of go with this. So it was the formula is somewhat I don't want to marginalize it by saying simple but it's pretty straightforward doesn't veer off too much but there's still a lot of variety to it though that pulls you in and makes you interested to say hey there's some side stuff I like here. So you know I think that's why the magazine works so well. And here's an interesting thing for you to consider is that we see you as somewhat monolithic. I mean we it's nice to hear this because we decibel to us as one voice at least it has 01:18:40.800 --> 01:19:10.680 And largely, even though they're individual writers. So I do want you to know, and I think you'll be pleased to hear that there is, from time to time, each and everybody on this podcast has had the experience of reading your magazine, starting to grow out of going, these motherfuckers. But that's, but Jay, that's what works though. Because I just read something I didn't agree with. Well, I did that with Kareem too, so they should be proud. But the next month, I'm going to read five things that I'm totally on board with. Of course. That's the reason to read. You know, so. There's stuff that I read in the magazine that, 01:19:10.780 --> 01:19:40.600 I don't connect with. Sure. There's stuff that I read in the magazine that I find outrageous. In fact, one time, probably within the first two years of the magazine's inception, Jay Bennett reviewed a rotting Christ record. And I so disagreed with his take on it that I created a fake email address and of a Greek person to write an angry letter that did get published. 01:19:40.800 --> 01:20:10.620 the magazine before I confessed that it was me. So was his review good or bad? And what was your take? As a Rod and Christ fan. And why were you Greek? Because they're from Rod and Christ. Do you recall? That's a good question. All I remember is that in the review, in that intimidable, wonderful Jay Bennett way, there was a long, 01:20:10.740 --> 01:20:40.080 digression about how much pizza sucks in Greece. And the persona that I created was of a pizza parlor operator in Athens. Characterization of pizza. So no musical nothing whatsoever. I also had a lot more time on my hands then. That's fantastic. 01:20:41.280 --> 01:20:42.580 I mean, there's no, 01:20:43.940 --> 01:20:46.260 I guess there was a party line with the magazine. 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.160 There are no directives that come from on high. 01:20:49.240 --> 01:20:50.980 It says this is anointed. 01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:54.580 Everyone has to fall in line and like whatever it is. 01:20:56.900 --> 01:20:58.080 Even napalm death. 01:20:58.740 --> 01:21:00.820 Well, exception for napalm death. 01:21:02.400 --> 01:21:04.080 Wait, isn't it two bands? 01:21:04.320 --> 01:21:05.660 Napalm death and paradise lost. 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:09.240 I thought I would say there's give on paradise lost. 01:21:09.660 --> 01:21:09.900 Yeah. 01:21:10.240 --> 01:21:40.220 Maybe in Nibam, Death, and Carcass. Yeah, okay. Oh, I mean, like, also, not really a decibel requirement, but you have to like Black Sabbath. Yeah, well, no. If you don't like Black Sabbath, you're working for that magazine, you may not be working for that magazine. That's the beginning of metal. But, at the same time, when I pitched to Albert some years ago, hey, I want to write an article in 01:21:40.800 --> 01:22:10.140 about this solo piano player. He's like, yeah, go for it. And I did. And it's in there. Who is the solo piano player? This guy whose project is called Goatcraft. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. No, it's cool. It's like dark piano music. Yeah. Yeah, he classifies it as necroclassical. Yeah, yeah. No, I like that stuff. That's good stuff. Nice. Yeah, actually, you guys, 01:22:10.240 --> 01:22:40.220 I don't know who and I for life I can't remember somebody talked did a write-up on dark ambient music and this is a while ago and I was just like wow because I'm a huge dark ambient fan me too um yeah so I have wished but I think it was online content is where it came from so it wasn't actually in the magazine could have been Jeff Dutch Chris oh sure but but but I like the fact that that the overall umbrella of decibel 01:22:40.240 --> 01:23:09.440 will strike out once in a while and do stuff like that. Just to kind of reel you back in. Well, I know Albert's the editor, but I also, to me, you guys should have a monthly article of this is metal. And it meaning like a thing out in the world that is metal, whatever it may be, some artistic expression that, you know, broadly speaking, isn't metal, but you know what I mean? Like Jason, not even adjacent, just like, you know, look at that fucking baby over there. Sometimes you see things and you go, that is not metal, but that is so metal. 01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:39.440 Exactly. In any case. Charge does that a lot. I do. Lady Gaga is so fucking metal. Okay, no. No, she isn't. Sorry, he took it there, guys. So, hey, Dan, did you have a favorite, like, in all of the chapters, do you have a favorite record or a favorite band from all your chapters, or do you have a favorite chapter that you enjoyed writing the most? Good question. 01:23:40.500 --> 01:24:09.140 the most and putting it all together the most. Damn. That's tough. That means there's a lot. So, but for different reasons. So, like, because of the very, I think, you may have to check with him, but because of the very positive relationship that I developed with Austin from Panopticon and how personal he was willing to get, 01:24:09.180 --> 01:24:38.620 and willing to let me put it in print. And the fact that his wife is in the chapter, like that, that it, it just didn't stay about the music. It crosses continents. I mean, there's a journey in that chapter. There's two, there's two, two full journeys. That's right. Uh, I, so that's a favorite of mine for a very personal reason. Um, for a less personal reason, but just kind of pride that it could, 01:24:39.160 --> 01:25:09.080 be talked about in this book. I think that the liturgy chapter, again, one that was rewritten, the liturgy chapter is very cool to me. I interviewed Hunter before she went public as being trans. And so then I was writing the chapter. And then when articles started coming, 01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:37.900 out. Then I got back in touch with her and said, you know, do we need to change anything? And the initial response was no, just, you know, gender me correctly. Fine. But then I finished the chapter and I sent it to her, as I did for almost everybody in the book. I actually sent them their chapters so they could prove it and help me make sure everything was right. And she was actually pretty pissed off about the way I wrote it. 01:25:38.060 --> 01:26:07.960 Now, I will say, like, I'm a liturgy fan, and I appreciate what that stuff is, so I was positive about the music, but the way I approached it from the kind of lowest common denominator, you know, internet warriors hate liturgy kind of a place, she was like, that's not true anymore, and then she wrote me, like, all this other stuff, which I was able to weave in, and now it tells a story that's a little stronger, 01:26:08.060 --> 01:26:38.000 about identity and how that feeds into the music that she liked growing up and the music that she created. And I'm proud of that. That's awesome, dude. That's a fucking really cool story. Yeah, the Imperial Triumphant and Liturgy stuff was tough for me, only because I don't think I'm smart enough to get that stuff. Like, you know, the liturgy in particular, I was like, wow, this is very interesting. 01:26:38.060 --> 01:27:07.980 intellectual stuff going on here. And I'm like, not like metal, you know, I'm like, serious. No, I'm not knocking it in any way. I'm just like, wow, this is like so much deeper than I think about life. Um, those, I mean, that's an excellent point in my mind as a reader of this book. I can see that I sort of have the same reaction to both liturgy and imperial triumphant. You know, 01:27:08.040 --> 01:27:37.980 The Imperial Triumphant's most recent record is like, we're heavily influenced by the Art Deco movement. You're like, fuck, now I have to learn about that. It's interesting though, given some of the points that you guys made earlier in this conversation about black metal, particularly US black metal, often being stark and naked and simple in the way it's presented. 01:27:38.100 --> 01:28:07.720 Those are cases of bands where they're drawing in the term in film is like extra diegetic information, things that exist outside the frame that you have to know and understand to be able to really place those things in context. Which is not to say that you can't flip on a liturgy record or an imperial triumphant record and get the gist or feel something, but it is not as elemental. 01:28:08.040 --> 01:28:37.940 as putting on the satanic blood demo. You put that on within the first minute or even 15 seconds, you know exactly what that's about and what's coming. What you just referenced there, and particularly with those two bands, do you mean that this information outside the frame pertains to the artists themselves or just to the things that they're interested in and trying to convey, like other pursuits of theirs? I'm curious. I think they invite that. I think that is definitely the case. 01:28:38.360 --> 01:29:08.020 early on with liturgy and Hunter Hendricks having the sideline of writing with the manifesto and the very conscious intellectualization of black metal. Well, it's funny, but I would go one step further and tell you, I think there are these weird, and it doesn't have to be black metal, it can be any genre of metal or any genre of music, of these weird geniuses who are 01:29:10.360 --> 01:29:37.440 don't appear to be so, but somehow have a kind of tap into something like that. And I don't know how to explain that, except to say that sometime I can have that experience with somebody and then read an interview with them and find out they're not like that at all. They are about the satanic bloodless demo, whatever you were talking about. And that's really, but I'm able to see these other contexts. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's just me comparing other experiences for my life. I think it's some people just do it so effortlessly or without even knowing they're doing it might be another way to put it. 01:29:37.460 --> 01:30:07.420 I don't know how to explain it but I love that you know what if I ordered the book from you Daniel can I get it signed or is there a way that you could sign a copy for me I yeah absolutely yes okay how do I do that wait hold on hold the fuck on so all of us bought the book we all have the book Jay does not have the book never read the book but now he's like oh can I get a signed copy I read it I don't I don't have a copy but I actually I would ask that question too because I don't know 01:30:07.440 --> 01:30:37.240 I live nearby. I'm just going to ask you to come over and be like, could you sign this? Thank you. You're thinking like me at the next Atlas show. When we're allowed to finally go, we're bringing the books. We're going to trudge that shit in and sign it for the next Atlas show. And we're all going to go for breakfast for dinner. Daniel, I'm not trying to put you. I don't want to put you on the spot, Daniel, but I would like to at least to say that, Will, that you guys may have the book, but it's clear that I understand it better than the rest of you. 01:30:38.280 --> 01:30:39.240 I don't know about that. 01:30:40.080 --> 01:30:40.820 I'm fucking with you. 01:30:41.280 --> 01:30:43.240 Those of you that don't already own the book, 01:30:43.660 --> 01:30:45.040 not only will Dan sign it, 01:30:45.380 --> 01:30:48.360 but he is going to handwrite the missing chapter. 01:30:49.500 --> 01:30:49.780 Yes! 01:30:50.300 --> 01:30:51.120 You guys! 01:30:51.780 --> 01:30:53.480 That's some serious bullshit right there. 01:30:54.520 --> 01:30:55.040 Okay, cool. 01:30:55.420 --> 01:30:56.740 It pays not to pre-order. 01:30:58.360 --> 01:31:01.320 I got a question we haven't asked. 01:31:01.700 --> 01:31:02.260 Wait, wait, wait. 01:31:02.260 --> 01:31:04.880 I do want to know how I order it to make sure that you sign it. 01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:05.100 I don't know. 01:31:05.220 --> 01:31:05.740 We'd have to figure it out. 01:31:05.880 --> 01:31:07.100 We'll do it later. 01:31:07.100 --> 01:31:37.080 Okay, okay. Okay. Okay. We'll talk. Go ahead. Marcus. I'm sorry. Yeah. I, I love the design for the book. Oh my gosh. I think it's fantastic. I think it's the best design that decibel has done. So can you tell me who designed it? What went into creating the look of the book? You know, uh, all that stuff. Mike Wahlberg is incredible. Uh, that guy, and I'm not, I know you're asking about the book, but I'm going to rewind 01:31:37.820 --> 01:32:05.640 I think one of the times that I noticed, like just noticed what he did with the writing that I gave to Decibel, his design for my Wolves in the Throne Room cover story was gorgeous. That guy is killer. Yeah, so Mike did the design for the book. He's the man. 01:32:05.720 --> 01:32:35.620 He put it together. We went back and forth a little to figure out the cover. Did you have ideas, Daniel, or did he just come up with something and you were like, I think maybe it should be this way? He's the one who came up with the ideas, yeah. There are a few different versions of the cover. So there are some back and forth between Dan and then Mike, who is the art director for Decibel, and also has designed the few most, 01:32:35.720 --> 01:33:01.880 recent Decibel books. So that's his design in the Paradise Lost book. The Black Metal Cult is Real, Cult is Alive book. He did that as well. There are a few different choices for the cover and some back and forth. I don't know if that's an interesting story, but this is what was finally arrived at. 01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:31.920 But whose tattooed hands and arms are all over the book? The front cover. The front cover features Paul Delaney of Black Anvil. Oh. That's what I thought. Yeah. That makes sense now when you think about it because I've seen pictures he's just covered. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I'm a graphic designer and design is my life and both the book and the magazine is design is phenomenal. I mean when you have content that you love and then you 01:33:31.920 --> 01:34:01.900 I see it well laid out well designed it just adds to it and in fact I chatted with James a little bit about it quickly when we did our ad in decibel I mean it's phenomenal but yeah I mean the yeah just his different choices and the way it complemented what you were writing you know again it just adds to the experience I think I mean I don't know that Mike gets the attention he deserves for how creative and forward 01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:31.480 and leaning and perceptive he is as a designer. But if you look at some of the decibel yearbook issues, so the most recent one that we did was 95, which it's basically a throwback to the 1995 era of Terrorizer. And there's probably 12 or 15 different references on the cover to that. It's just, 01:34:31.940 --> 01:35:00.880 It's a little understated, but genius. So he'll tweak the color palette, he'll tweak the design, shape of the logo. He's also responsible for the look of the magazine inside, which I like. He fucking gets the credit on our podcast. Before I ask the question, scoll Mike. I tear shit apart all day long. Now cheers to him. He's a huge part of what makes Decibel great. Yes, he is. Awesome. 01:35:01.940 --> 01:35:31.020 I wanted to bring it back to another band. I wanted to talk about. I'm sorry. Is it weakling? It is not. No, one that hasn't come up yet, uh, that I was really happy to see in this, in this book. Uh, I was very glad to see Tanner Anderson of obsequia in there. Cause he is just one of the nicest guys. Uh, and I, and I, and such a unique and great band as well. 01:35:31.920 --> 01:36:00.720 So how did you, I've tried to get, I've met Tanner a couple of times and, you know, really sweet guy, but he doesn't want to talk. And, you know, he's like willing to talk to me, but getting him on the podcast, he's like, I don't want to do that. So how did you get him to talk to you for a book? I mean, maybe because it was print instead of audio, but. No, I mean, it was, it was timing, honestly. If I had been trying to get him, 01:36:01.880 --> 01:36:30.500 Well, I will say, I did try to get him, and he did tell me no. But then, I guess, was it November of 2019, he had a record coming out. And so he was already, like, he was excited to talk about his new record. And I think that was the hook that I could, like, hey, you want to talk about your new record? That's awesome. 01:36:30.580 --> 01:37:00.540 I want to talk about it too. And I want to talk about your entire life. And it was, yeah. So, so he, he was down because there was, it was something else going on beyond just me talking about, you know, wanting to get him on for the book. Right. And, uh, you know, extra shout out to him. 01:37:01.140 --> 01:37:29.720 because he delivered Austin Lunn also. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Last time I saw him was at Shadow Woods when he was playing with Panopticon there. He's a very cool guy. I have not met him. So you're one up on me there. The first time I met him was actually a decibel a couple years ago. And he was working the Hammerheart booth. Oh. And he came up to me and was like, 01:37:30.600 --> 01:37:59.660 I really like your battle vest. Which is a ridiculous battle vest. I had no idea who he was. And it took me a while to figure out who he was. That's just code for I really like your ass. Nobody likes my ass. Before we go on, can I ask, is now a good time to prank call Adam Tepedellan? When is not a good time for that? Oh, can we? 01:38:00.580 --> 01:38:29.940 Does he have Prince Albert in the can? Why don't we prank Albert? I got Albert's phone number. It's a little late for... I mean, some of you guys are parents. I think we need to be kind to parents of small children. Well, they're both parents, right? Well, but Adam's West Coast is... That's true. It's earlier there. Oh, yeah. But it's a common... It's only $6.42. I don't want to pay for that. 01:38:33.440 --> 01:39:00.560 He won't answer the phone anyway. He'll see it's coming from me. He's like, I'm not answering that fucking phone. You guys call me. It'll work. I love the reference to Prince Albert in a can too. Boy, my mom literally made that call as a child. So it's nice that you have that in your lexicon there. Are there any number of people? I mean, I thought I was really slick as a kid back when I used to call Domino's and order like 10 pizzas and see my 01:39:00.580 --> 01:39:28.260 My name was Pete Z Hut and then call that Pizza Hut whose address I supplied and say that my name was Dom Mignot. Also Greek, apparently. I feel like we have to ask about that. Adam is pretty trusting. That might work on him. 01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:59.180 I was going to say, I think we have to ask Nick about that no corporate beer con that you do online, but I was wondering what you guys thought of 2020 for black metal albums. What was your favorite black metal album from last year since we're only about a month into the new year? Favorite black metal album from last year? Yeah. You want me to go? I'm going for it. I don't think I have an answer. Tombs, Under Silent Skies. Wow. 01:39:59.900 --> 01:40:28.200 That band, that record rules. I mean, it was a late edition, right? I didn't hear it until later. No, it was a late edition, though. Oh, I love that record. They fucking smoked it at the last decibel when they played. That was fucking amazing. Yeah, and you obviously have too, but we got to meet Mike. Yeah, Mike's a good guy. And we had him on the podcast once, too. We did, yeah. I did get his own podcast, Metal Matters. It's really cool, too. 01:40:32.460 --> 01:40:59.660 I'll tell Jamie Joss that I'll get offended. He's not metal technically. Yeah. So my original list of questions which I still have a ton of and I've skipped over most of them has to do with a lot of the stuff that nobody wants to talk about about metal. The NSBM type stuff. So in the book you took a fairly neutral stance about 01:40:59.700 --> 01:41:29.180 some of the less than politically correct bands, saying people need to think for themselves, decide what they accept. What is your personal stance for either of you on bands of this kind? I mean, yeah, just run with that. So I feel like when I answer this question, I sound like a poser because my answer to this question sounds like a lie, and I hate that it sounds like a lie because it's actually true. 01:41:29.700 --> 01:41:57.720 I don't think I... There are just no bands that I reach for whose music I love who I also have to worry about their politics. That's fair. I know that sounds like a cop-out. No, it doesn't. Oh, I just don't like those bands. But I just happen to not. Because for years, I listened to Burzum. 01:41:58.800 --> 01:42:28.760 And I was like, you know, I know he's a jackass. He did some horrible shit. But the music's cool. And I justify, I mean, a lot of people probably, you know, 15, 20 years ago justified this shit. But now I can't even think about listening to Burzum. Well, you know, George, I'm so glad you asked him that question because I was going to ask you guys in making your list because we did a top five list of our own. If any of you looked at an album and said, I kind of want to put this on there, but I kind of don't want to put this on there. 01:42:28.800 --> 01:42:58.580 on there. Yes. I did too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't go on a list unless it was endorsed in some way. Well, I, I have like, like, as I think I mentioned, like a bunch of followups to this. So, um, go, let's go. That's a good, I like this mind. Dig it. All right. Well, um, let me look at my list here. Well, there's one band George, you and I talked about, right? That is one of the followups and that's Agalog. Um, you know, he, he, 01:42:58.800 --> 01:43:28.720 He said something he shouldn't have said. Okay. It's not like he has like swastikas tattooed on himself. Dark Throne back in the day made a really stupid statement on one of their albums. Got shit for it. Apologized and said we're dumb. And they're still around today and people like Dark Throne. And I'm playing devil's advocate here because what he said was fucking stupid and horrible. But at the same time, 01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:58.660 could he have been saying something? I mean, we, not everybody, but people make jokes that are inappropriate with their friends that people know they don't mean. So he said something anti-Semitic on Facebook, which is far too public of a thing to say if you're only joking. One statement, no priors, apologized for it. Can we listen to Agaloc or not? 01:43:59.980 --> 01:44:00.500 You know? 01:44:02.020 --> 01:44:02.760 Well, I think 01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:04.120 They're putting you on the spot 01:44:04.380 --> 01:44:04.480 Yeah 01:44:05.440 --> 01:44:06.220 No, I mean 01:44:06.300 --> 01:44:09.120 I'm not asking for you to justify one way or another 01:44:09.240 --> 01:44:10.540 I'm just curious of your opinion 01:44:10.700 --> 01:44:11.840 I want to hear his answer 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:12.880 There's a follow-up to that 01:44:13.060 --> 01:44:13.960 Just add real quick 01:44:14.380 --> 01:44:16.300 There's a quote you had in there about where 01:44:16.600 --> 01:44:17.240 Post Comet 01:44:17.980 --> 01:44:20.680 Where band members had gotten together and talked about that 01:44:21.540 --> 01:44:23.340 That incident, if I remember correctly in there 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:24.440 I remember that 01:44:24.900 --> 01:44:25.520 And how they were 01:44:26.220 --> 01:44:27.340 Working through that 01:44:27.360 --> 01:44:57.320 at least in their own relationship that brought them together. Right, right, right. And I found it interesting that saying something like that actually brought the band back together, at least on a personal level, not a professional level. So Dan and Nick. Yeah. I will, to add to the Agaloc thing, that's not the first time that band invited controversy. If you guys remember early on, they covered Soul Invictus, that band, and there was 01:45:01.040 --> 01:45:27.320 I really like George's just cold hard question can we listen to Agaloc or not I really like that question and I want you to answer it from your you know from your own point. Agaloc's awesome. Look would you listen to that that that that's that's the actual question would you listen to them. The problem Jay is that I'm not going to answer it as straightforward as you want me to do you still want me to answer? No no no no the non-straightforward answer 01:45:27.360 --> 01:45:54.840 The question is simple. The answer could be complex, by all means. So here's where I land with this. I am very uncomfortable damning people who I don't know who, you know, have given me some evidence that they're not thinking straight and they don't think the way I think. But if I don't know them, 01:45:57.340 --> 01:46:02.880 a really hard time just saying that they're terrible people. 01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:04.300 That's a great answer. 01:46:04.740 --> 01:46:04.860 Yeah. 01:46:05.230 --> 01:46:17.400 And that leads to another one of my follow-ups about the whole cancel culture thing and about how, you know, what's justified and what's not justified in terms of bands, of things happening in bands like this. 01:46:17.450 --> 01:46:21.180 I mean, you know, Inquisition obviously had some problems. 01:46:22.720 --> 01:46:23.940 Again, to put them out of the way. 01:46:24.360 --> 01:46:26.380 Yeah, to put them out of the way in that case, that's true. 01:46:26.720 --> 01:46:56.680 Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's some pretty hard evidence there for those guys. But there was a ban. Okay, pan. George, let him answer. Sorry. Yeah, he's got to answer. Go ahead. I mean, maybe this is a rhetorical way to look at it, but like, is Marilyn Manson responsible for the shootings at Columbine? No. No. Are there complicated and difficult themes on a 01:46:56.720 --> 01:47:26.680 the Marilyn Manson record certainly he plays with fascist imagery there is weird gender queer stuff and body dysmorphia and like all kinds of complicated things that go into that he has some interesting attitudes and collections of things I think that one way to answer that question is yes you can listen to Agaloc you can listen to 01:47:26.700 --> 01:47:56.660 You can listen to Burzum or Mayhem. You can make that choice yourself. Just there are ways to approach those things from a more intellectual mindset or a more aesthetic appreciation. Once you start drawing lines, then it's a matter of personal choice where that line is. So I think 01:47:56.700 --> 01:48:25.580 It's very important to recognize that it is not a binary. It's like, I don't know, things can be all shades of uncomfortable and racist. Where it gets really complicated, at least for me personally, is when you start stacking things on top. Like, there are multiple problems with supporting a band like Inquisition, which I will no longer do. 01:48:25.680 --> 01:48:53.540 These are such thoughtful answers. And it's funny because it gets, I think, slightly more complicated when you take a more meathead kind of example like Angel of Death by Slayer. Not necessarily a glorification. Not necessarily something that's like saying this is something we're okay with. But very specifically talking about, and honestly from a kind of almost action movie perspective, is that okay? 01:48:55.700 --> 01:49:23.300 I think your answer is perfectly thoughtful. That's good. It's clear that you guys have thought about this, by the way. So keep going, Nick. We've talked about this quite a bit, actually, lately. I mean, we could have a five-hour discussion on this alone. So I do think that it is important for every person to figure this out for themselves, because that's the basis of having convictions. 01:49:24.460 --> 01:49:51.420 So the politics that I might apply to a situation are not the same politics that Dan would have and not the same politics for each of you guys and for your cadre of listeners. So some people might have very strong feelings about why it's not okay to revisit Agalog. And that's good. I want to live in a society where we uphold that. 01:49:51.800 --> 01:50:19.600 Some people might have different feelings about it and think that the incident that you're referring to is isolated and that does not constitute a pattern of abuse or it is not an incitement towards hatred or violence. And that's also valid in a way. Also, if I may, we keep saying Agaloc. We keep bringing up Agaloc. 01:50:19.680 --> 01:50:48.700 Just one dude. That is. John Holm was the guy who said this. Agaloc is a band of at least three and maybe four people. And they condemn that. And Don Anderson and Jason Walden are very eloquent, thoughtful guys who didn't say these things. 01:50:48.860 --> 01:51:18.660 So I think it's important to also say that, you know, is it okay to listen to Aglock? Well, a lot of times you're listening to, you know, Don Anderson riffs. Yeah. And Walton's bass work. And so I don't know. I think that's why Aglock came up for that very reason. And also, I think the reason why George and I were talking about it is that John did make the con, he did apologize. You could take it for what it is, you know, and also that's what, 01:51:18.860 --> 01:51:48.800 got Don and John talking post-comment. And that's the reason why I think they come up because of those reasons. Whereas you've got other bands where it's like, yeah, you've got eight or nine things. I'm not going there. It's just not happening. And I think that's the reason why we're asking about Agaloc. And because there are other band members, one incident plus the solo effect, this thing, but it's not the same as the pattern of constant stuff. 01:51:48.860 --> 01:52:18.800 from other bands. That's why. It's not quite as damning, although, I mean, it's not good. No, it's not good. I think that should always be pointed out. But there's stupidity and then there's hatred. You can say something being stupid and not thinking about what you're saying, and that doesn't make you a bad person. It just means you're stupid. Right. And do we accept the apology at that point that this person can try, they realize they fucked up. I brought up this, I think, on Instant Message, 01:52:18.920 --> 01:52:46.360 but I love dissection. They killed a dude in a hate crime. Yeah, exactly. I still listen to dissection. Yeah. It's still one of the most revered black metal bands ever. Yeah. Fucking killed somebody. Burn churches. Yeah. But they're cool now. Yeah. James and I talked about this. James won't listen to dissection because of their history. And but I'm like, you know, and I'm like, yeah, but Storm of the fucking Lightspeed, dude, you know, and that's one I haven't been able to give up. 01:52:46.880 --> 01:53:09.840 I would also draw a distinction here between people who have caveman-like views that do not necessarily filter that into the music that they make and those that use their bands or their albums or their labels as a platform for disseminating the hate message. 01:53:10.160 --> 01:53:15.400 There is a difference in my mind between Agaloc and 01:53:17.459 --> 01:53:21.400 National Socialist Black Metal Band or Grand Binales Key. 01:53:21.780 --> 01:53:24.080 Yeah, for sure. Graveland. 01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:29.560 So the Grand Binales Key was one of the most fascinating chapters to me 01:53:30.420 --> 01:53:37.160 because what it drew out to me and hear me out is that, 01:53:37.480 --> 01:54:07.320 You know, whether it's death metal, black metal, whatever, you can talk about the damnation of Christianity all day long, and not a single person will ever call you out. Because Christianity, it's a religion. There's no ethnicity, there's no racial component to Christianity. It's one of the three monotheistic religions rooted in the Old Testament, which is the 01:54:07.340 --> 01:54:35.940 is the Jewish Old Testament. However, if you rail against Judaism, right? Or Islam. Well, if you start with Judaism, if you rail against Judaism, it is a religion. It's a monotheistic religion with the same Old Testament as Islam, as Christianity. They all have the same Old Testament. They all adopted the Jewish Old Testament to make their own religions, you know, justifiable in the old ancient world. 01:54:36.760 --> 01:55:05.360 But Judaism is also a ethnicity, which people have persecuted that ethnicity. And so it's interesting to me in the case of Grand Benile Keys, and I don't really, I've never listened to them. I'm not into them. I know they're local to the D.C. Alexandria area. But it's interesting to me that, what's that? Sort of. Yeah, they're from Oakton, I thought, aren't they? Virginia. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, by Vienna. They're outside the Beltway. Yeah. 01:55:05.460 --> 01:55:35.440 Yeah, but it's just interesting to me because I guess reading the book, Dan, is that they say, well, we're just railing against Judeo-Christian values, which you would, you know, nobody will say anything. You say anything bad against Christianity, but if you say something against Judaism, people automatically think it's about the Jewish people. And so this is where it gets complicated. If you know anything about like the history of religion and three monotheist religions, like if you say something bad against Islam, I mean, you're going to have a 01:55:35.680 --> 01:56:04.000 You have Al Qaeda, the Taliban, everybody else coming out against you and trying to kill your ass like that. The whole video, the movie that came out right before Benghazi and all that stuff. But like that whole dynamic, I'm not saying good or bad or anything. It's just that dynamic is very interesting to me. Sure. I mean, it's a really good point. I'll bring up, there's an Indian band who I love called Heathen Beast. And they have anti, 01:56:05.460 --> 01:56:07.720 Islam songs. 01:56:08.680 --> 01:56:10.140 They're not anti-Muslim. 01:56:10.280 --> 01:56:11.500 They're not anti-the person. 01:56:12.600 --> 01:56:14.380 It's against the religion. 01:56:14.520 --> 01:56:17.020 But part of that is a political statement. 01:56:17.540 --> 01:56:17.760 Yeah. 01:56:17.820 --> 01:56:18.840 Where they come from. 01:56:19.020 --> 01:56:19.160 Right. 01:56:19.280 --> 01:56:20.020 If you're Indian. 01:56:20.480 --> 01:56:22.420 That's a political value as well. 01:56:22.540 --> 01:56:25.220 There's this country to the west called Pakistan. 01:56:25.920 --> 01:56:32.180 And so I wanted to mention, I think all of the things you said are the right things, right? 01:56:32.280 --> 01:56:34.240 Like, you're right. 01:56:34.420 --> 01:57:03.240 It's a very interesting point that being, you know, atheist, being against religion, specifically, I guess they're not the same thing, right? But feeling that religion has caused negative things in the world, and so attacking religion seems reasonable in the metal community. But you're absolutely right. There's a historical context. There's a power dynamic, frankly. In the United States, 01:57:04.100 --> 01:57:31.840 Christianity is the religion that has the most power. So attacking something that is powerful is okay. Because there's an understanding of that power dynamic. Yeah. That's because all the history and persecuting Christianity is the persecutor. 01:57:32.960 --> 01:58:02.900 Well, unless you're talking about the old Roman Empire, and then that's a whole different story. Yeah, I mean. We could find that throughout history for every aspect, though. I mean, it's easy because that's the country we live in right now. And I know these are all very thoughtful comments, every last one of them, but I would also point out that most of the people who involved in the extreme metal scene who are making these kinds of statements are not as thoughtful about it as what you're talking about. So there's that. I mean, you know, and I'm obviously talking about the Inquisition, 01:58:02.960 --> 01:58:31.520 versus some of the other things we've mentioned, meaning that's just bullshit, hillbilly, dumbass. You know what I mean? That really is what it is. It's the MAGA hat and all that. Sure, and that's absolutely possible. I will go right back to my earlier statement that I'm very uncomfortable condemning people I don't know very well. And so you say, you know, these people are not being as thoughtful as this conversation. And that might be true. And then, okay, that's very bad. 01:58:31.560 --> 01:59:01.480 But it might also not, because I don't know these people, so I have a hard time condemning it. You're right. No, absolutely, absolutely. And this is really good. This is a great conversation all the way around, though. It really is. I'm really enjoying this. Well, Daniel did a great job in the book, too, I think, of addressing things, you know, while still covering the history of Black men. Yeah. Yeah. One of the other things I wanted to bring up was because while I feel I have a moral obligation to not listen to certain bands, 01:59:01.560 --> 01:59:31.520 Bands like Grand Belial's Key and Inquisition. I feel like people can take that too far in their social justice warriorism. And John knows who I'm talking about online. There are people that will just jump to automatically condemn and cancel a band with very slim evidence. And there was a particular band that I didn't necessarily 01:59:31.540 --> 01:59:34.280 agree with the controversy around them. 01:59:34.280 --> 01:59:35.380 And it was Panzerfaust. 01:59:36.250 --> 01:59:38.600 The band is named after Nazi, 01:59:39.350 --> 01:59:39.760 you know, 01:59:40.080 --> 01:59:43.340 it's named after a Nazi anti-tank weapon, 01:59:43.510 --> 01:59:46.040 but none of the lyrics that I'm aware of, 01:59:46.820 --> 01:59:50.820 except for maybe I've done so there's so many bands. 01:59:51.070 --> 01:59:52.660 There may have been some stuff on the first album, 01:59:53.460 --> 01:59:54.400 but like anything, 01:59:54.880 --> 01:59:57.220 at least within the last four or five albums, 01:59:57.560 --> 01:59:57.880 it's just, 01:59:58.300 --> 01:59:58.400 it's, 01:59:58.660 --> 02:00:00.400 it's just war metal. 02:00:01.020 --> 02:00:30.220 It's not anything racist or anything like that. And just because the band was named this, this person was like, oh, we can't listen to this band anymore. And I'm like, I feel like that's going too far. But for a single person to decide that, that's fine. That's fine for them to decide that. It's not fine for them to censor it for other people necessarily. But, you know, that's what we do. We make those choices for ourselves. 02:00:31.000 --> 02:01:00.980 You know, it's funny, I know you guys are probably not fans, and really I don't think any of us are big fans, but before you came on we were talking about John Schaefer, who was just arrested for attacking the Capitol. That's good. So that's a, and which by the one, a cancel culture item I think we're all very comfortable with, but we're all very sympathetic to the rest of that band, you know what I mean? So it's just such a... Matt Marlowe is... Why are we sympathetic to that? I want to go to the other end and say that it's not okay 02:01:01.040 --> 02:01:28.280 I will be the first one to raise my hand. I've never liked ice. I always thought they were a poor man's American Iron Maiden. That just was not very good. But Matt Barlow is amazing. I just I don't care. I never got into him. But in any case, well, and a really nice guy. But it still offers another example of what we're talking about. 02:01:31.020 --> 02:02:00.680 Oh, man. Bazinga. That's good. Can we talk about Nick's beer column? Yeah. No, no, no. I think I still have a few more evil things to talk about. I have to go to the bathroom. You gotta cut them off, man. No, no, no, no, no. This is the official station break. I mean, do you guys need a break? Do you want to take a quick break? Of course I do. You're listening to the Metalheads Podcast. 02:02:01.400 --> 02:02:27.080 Self-Important Elitist Ass Hats. Every one of them. So, were the contributions from Jimmy Claypool gathered before the implosion of False? Yes. And how did you feel about including them after that happened? So, give us some context about what happened with Claypool and False for the uninitiated listener. Apparently, well, you probably know more about that than I do. 02:02:32.320 --> 02:03:00.980 He was accused of sexual assault. He then apologized and owned up to it, said that yes, this had been a thing. In fact, that it had been a pattern. He also suggested that that pattern had been instilled early. In fact, that it was 02:03:01.000 --> 02:03:28.340 Part of a cycle that he was a part of that had happened to him. The rest of his band immediately condemned his actions and cut ties with him and dissolved the band. Yeah, that was pretty out of left field. It was just like one day there's a band next day. Boom, no band. Yep. They were very clear. Very clear. 02:03:31.020 --> 02:03:59.900 How did I feel about including his? Because he kind of pops up once in a while throughout the book in a couple different chapters. Because he exists. He is a fact in the scene. His negative impact on other people, which is very real, is something that I meant, like I said that, like I made it clear that this was true. 02:04:01.020 --> 02:04:30.280 and having done because that is also a fact. I think that's where I land on this stuff. Well, you are doing journalism after fashion, not even after fashion. That sounded condescending. No, but I mean, it's also a labor of love, is my point. And so you have your own version of a personal investment in this style of music. But it is journalism. And so, you know, I don't think there's anything. 02:04:30.700 --> 02:05:00.400 Well, because when I was reading, I was like, I have a feeling this happened after you talked to him because I kind of figured maybe you wouldn't be asking some of these questions and talking to him the way you were if it had been after. I don't even think he would have talked to him. No, there was no. Well, and I mean, to be fair, I never actually talked to him. The false stuff all happened over email. It always has with that bad. Well, you say always. They didn't even do. 02:05:00.460 --> 02:05:04.160 any interviews of any kind until very recently. 02:05:05.680 --> 02:05:09.060 I think I'm pretty sure False was one of the first bands to play Atlas. 02:05:10.070 --> 02:05:10.200 Okay. 02:05:11.440 --> 02:05:14.060 I live in Minneapolis, so they are local to me. 02:05:14.200 --> 02:05:17.240 And when I was doing a blog, I had reached out to them about an interview. 02:05:17.550 --> 02:05:23.820 And they said they only, they said no, but then they had showed up in Decibel. 02:05:23.850 --> 02:05:26.380 But it was like it wasn't any member of the band. 02:05:26.380 --> 02:05:28.600 It was like a sole voice of the band. 02:05:28.600 --> 02:05:29.980 I remember that feature. 02:05:30.260 --> 02:05:59.900 It was a struggle to get to put that together. And I think the only reason they acquiesced was so they could speak through one voice. They're not the only band that has done that, but probably the most notable band. Interesting. And they even felt bad about that. Like they didn't say you specifically, but one of the things that was said was, you know, when we started, we wanted the music to speak for itself and we didn't want to do any, 02:05:59.940 --> 02:06:05.540 any interviews. And so the people who were hitting us up for interviews, we said no. 02:06:05.840 --> 02:06:13.780 It wasn't out of any disrespect. We just wanted that mystery. We wanted to separate our egos from the music. 02:06:16.080 --> 02:06:24.220 And then they got bigger and these bigger publications started coming around asking for interviews. 02:06:24.960 --> 02:06:53.620 And they would, they wanted to turn those down because they didn't want to seem like they were going after the big interviews and like too good for the other ones. So anyway, that came up like they felt crappy about that situation. Sure. Interesting. So I just went back and looked. And so our first independently booked show at Atlas was black metal. 02:06:54.960 --> 02:07:24.820 Vance and Fax from Canada in early 2017. Before that, we had local bands play. And then the second independent show booked on June 26, 2017 was Thou, Cloud, Rat, False, Moloch, and Hand Grenade something or other. That was great. Yeah. Also, how many times have Sick Deer played? 02:07:25.980 --> 02:07:54.900 A lot. Actually, I should say not as many as I would have liked. Probably twice. And I booked them at the last Adroit Theory show. Okay. Probably the band that's played Atlas the most is Ilsa. Ilsa, yeah. Ilsa, just, they're always around. They're great guys. They don't fit on our stage, so they always play on the floor. Sometimes they show up at my place on days when tryouts. 02:07:54.960 --> 02:08:24.840 If they can just hang out for a while. Yeah. I think has only played Atlas like maybe three times, weirdly enough. I love those guys. No, they're great guys. No, Sean Gregorian is just such a down-to-earth nice guy. They're all just good dudes. One of my favorite local black metal bands. 02:08:24.960 --> 02:08:54.460 Yeah, by far. I mean, they just, they got talent and I've told these guys about them a bunch of times. They made my year end list in years past. Just good dudes. Yeah. Let's do your other question, George. All right. So my last ethics question. Did you come from six guys who have no ethics? For when we were drunk? Actually, actually, I did write a lot of these questions while drinking. And, 02:08:54.940 --> 02:09:24.660 I cut a lot of the really bad ones. Not like bad ethically, just like, what the fuck was I thinking when I wrote that? But so we've talked about like the racism and the people who have done bad things. One other person from this book who is definitely on the outs with most people is Blake Judd. But Blake is not. 02:09:24.960 --> 02:09:54.920 You know, in a bad place. Explain who Blake Judd is. Blake Judd from Noctmistium and Twilight and I can't remember. Eat meditation? Yeah. He basically had a drug problem and had, has, I'm not sure, present or past tense. And he did some pretty shady things to fuel that drug problem, which has obviously made him a very unpopular 02:09:54.960 --> 02:10:24.840 Now, you know, addiction is a disease as opposed to being somebody who has a horrific belief. Can Blake Judd come back and, you know, I mean, he's, I know he's apologized and he's supposedly gotten clean. You know, I like not mystium, but I understand. 02:10:24.940 --> 02:10:26.760 why people wouldn't. 02:10:27.380 --> 02:10:29.000 And I certainly wouldn't want to, 02:10:29.900 --> 02:10:31.180 at this point in my life, 02:10:31.380 --> 02:10:32.000 give him money. 02:10:33.320 --> 02:10:33.980 So what did he, 02:10:34.260 --> 02:10:35.180 you have to explain this. 02:10:35.880 --> 02:10:36.500 He was, 02:10:36.630 --> 02:10:36.900 he was, 02:10:38.460 --> 02:10:40.460 so what did he do when he was on drugs? 02:10:40.740 --> 02:10:42.160 That was so bad that, 02:10:42.530 --> 02:10:42.820 you know, 02:10:43.040 --> 02:10:43.100 well, 02:10:43.360 --> 02:10:47.260 like one of the things was he was taking orders for things that he never delivered. 02:10:49.140 --> 02:10:49.340 Okay. 02:10:50.580 --> 02:10:51.340 Like merch, 02:10:51.400 --> 02:10:51.600 you mean? 02:10:51.870 --> 02:10:51.980 Yeah. 02:10:52.220 --> 02:10:52.340 Like, 02:10:52.390 --> 02:10:54.440 like albums and merch and things like that. 02:10:54.500 --> 02:11:24.480 He was just taking the money, buying drugs, not delivering on it, and selling other people's stuff unlicensed. Not good stuff, but if you take into consideration the guy was a hardcore junkie, it's not unexpected that he would do something like that. If he gets cleaned up and makes amends, can he come back from that? Obviously, based on previous answers, that's something that everybody has to 02:11:26.640 --> 02:11:28.820 But it was just something I wanted to bring up. 02:11:29.200 --> 02:11:32.580 I disagree. I think it's something Blake has to figure out. 02:11:33.550 --> 02:11:40.700 I think his friends, I say his friends, because he has severed most of those friendships. 02:11:42.340 --> 02:11:54.400 I would say the people who knew him from back in the day before he got all tied up in the drugs, I think they would love to see him come back. 02:11:54.440 --> 02:12:21.620 I think they would love to see that guy that they knew before he, you know, got so deep into the drugs. I think they would love to see that guy make music without drugs because they were impressed by his ability, by his creativity. And I think they'd like to see that for him as a person. 02:12:22.180 --> 02:12:52.140 I met him in 2005 or so. Completely different person. I think while your point that addiction is a disease and should be factored into how we view the situation, depression is also a disease. And in both cases, whether it's addiction or depression, it is not an acquittal of the actions 02:12:52.160 --> 02:12:54.120 of that person. You still have to own it. 02:12:54.190 --> 02:13:22.100 His voice is inextricably linked to the person. The question becomes, do you think that at this point, whether Blake Judd is seriously clean or not, he has made the appropriate amends? If you read Dan's book, it would seem from the input from the other MacMistian band members who provide commentary that they are not, 02:13:22.140 --> 02:13:25.100 to accept those apologies. 02:13:25.690 --> 02:13:29.860 Like they need more from him to welcome him back with open arms. 02:13:30.390 --> 02:13:35.800 I think lots of fans feel that way about him. 02:13:36.580 --> 02:13:38.880 That doesn't mean that there's no path to salvation, 02:13:39.860 --> 02:13:41.960 but to the casual observer, 02:13:42.190 --> 02:13:47.120 it would seem that wherever he is on that journey towards redemption, 02:13:47.590 --> 02:13:49.200 he hasn't reached the end of it yet. 02:13:49.800 --> 02:14:19.740 And what's interesting about that chapter in the book, I think for me as a reader, was Blake Judd is the ultimate unreliable narrator. You cannot actually tell if he's telling the truth in the book. You have no true sense of what his state of mind or being is from there. He says he's okay. Is he? I mean, he issues, he's issued several public statements. 02:14:20.420 --> 02:14:37.820 over the last few years leading up to the dissolution of Noc Mistyum that basically said, I'm sorry, I accept everything I've done, but I'm okay, etc. Is that it? I think more is needed there. 02:14:38.420 --> 02:14:47.600 Well, it sounds like he, you know, and it's funny because George, you're talking about can he make a return? And this is not, this is a community and it's not that large a community. 02:14:47.660 --> 02:15:14.340 And if a lot of the members of the community felt they got burned by an individual, I can totally see. In other words, yes, I could see why that would be a hard return. But at the same time, while I have no sympathy for racists and Nazis and people like that, I would have a hope or I would like to see redemption in his case. 02:15:14.440 --> 02:15:42.620 I would like, you know, that's something that you could come back from. And I would accept that if it was genuine. And I would like to see that, that, you know, that kind of story as opposed. You might have a bigger investment and concern, though, if he emptied your bank account. Well, of course. No, but no. And so, but that's what we're talking about. These people who are. That's what Nick was saying. No one in the community is. The example of Blake Judd. 02:15:43.220 --> 02:16:13.180 If you look at the statements he made after Nuk Nistian was cancelled for the Scion Fest that they were due to play, based on old information coming back to light again about some casual associations with an NSBM label, like I think it was released early on on one, he essentially came out and said, I was a dumbass. I was young. I was ignorant. I didn't know 02:16:13.200 --> 02:16:43.179 The Dark Throne Excuse. I'm just guessing. Keep going. Keep going, Nick. I wanted to ask, is NSBM National Socialist Black Penal? Is that what it is? Just lucky guess. No, no, go ahead. I think that is an aspect or an element that you can take at face value. That seemed genuine. But for some of us, this goes back to our earlier conversation about where 02:16:43.219 --> 02:17:13.179 Do you draw the line? You draw the line personally based on what your experience is. What's interesting to me is I think you can use Phil Ensalmo as a case study. So yeah, I like the face you just made, Nick. Is it based upon popularity? Is it based upon record sales? Is it based upon... 02:17:13.780 --> 02:17:43.059 to offer, like to accept an apology. Is that the question? Well, no, no, it's just, it's just more of like, so Phil Insomno, Phil Insomno has a very checkered past, you know, whether it be drugs or whatever, but he very famously, I don't know how many years ago it was, like four or five years ago. And, and to Decibel's credit, they did the big first interview with him. So he got on stage at some festival, I think it was a dime bag festival and, you know, did a big Nazi salute and said, yelled out, 02:17:43.219 --> 02:17:46.719 White Power. At the time, he said, oh, I was drinking 02:17:47.400 --> 02:17:49.620 White Wine Chardonnay backstage, 02:17:50.080 --> 02:17:51.900 which is clearly a crock of shit. 02:17:52.679 --> 02:17:53.820 Like, who would drink that? 02:17:54.219 --> 02:17:55.059 Right, exactly. 02:17:55.739 --> 02:17:57.980 You might as well just admit that I drink 02:17:58.540 --> 02:17:59.240 Bubbly Roseé. 02:17:59.519 --> 02:18:01.460 White Power, unless you actually believe it. 02:18:01.460 --> 02:18:03.000 I was drunk on White Claw. 02:18:04.080 --> 02:18:04.200 Yeah. 02:18:05.500 --> 02:18:07.219 But it seems like, 02:18:07.599 --> 02:18:08.660 it seems to me 02:18:09.919 --> 02:18:11.500 that all has been forgiven. 02:18:12.260 --> 02:18:13.059 Not here. 02:18:13.080 --> 02:18:43.019 And I have to say, like, I have, I have, I, I, Cowboys from Hell and Bulgur Display of Power were very influential albums to me. But after that, like, when they just became, like, singularly focused on just everything about them was marijuana. I'm like, well, fuck these guys. Like, where's the music? Give me, give me the music. So I think I haven't given a shit about Pantera or Phil Insomino in years. So I can say this free will, but like, it seems to me like he has, 02:18:43.059 --> 02:19:13.040 now seems like and I hope I'm wrong he's been given a pass now it's like oh well he kind of made some half-ass apology and it's like all is well I'm still making music he's still putting yeah anyway you say everything has been forgiven you say he's been given a pass it seems that I'm just saying it seems to me sure sure my I guess my question is why do we have to collectively do anything like why can't like like it's 02:19:13.059 --> 02:19:38.840 It's perfectly reasonable for one person to say, he crossed a line, I can't cross it with him, that's not okay with me anymore. And for somebody else, again, who doesn't know him, who just listens to music, to listen to the music and say, well, that didn't bother me enough to stop listening. I guess I'm not sure why it has to be a collective agreement that we do get rid of this person or don't that person. 02:19:38.840 --> 02:19:41.440 I say this because I feel like there's this 02:19:43.680 --> 02:19:45.280 George alluded to this earlier 02:19:45.620 --> 02:19:47.240 about this like social media pressure 02:19:47.660 --> 02:19:49.240 friends pressure like there's this pressure 02:19:49.600 --> 02:19:51.520 that oh you know 02:19:53.021 --> 02:19:53.740 I've had 02:19:53.740 --> 02:19:55.500 the unfortunate experience at 02:19:55.740 --> 02:19:57.520 Atlas where I get 02:19:57.680 --> 02:19:59.080 pressured into because I 02:19:59.640 --> 02:20:01.600 am the host the producer of these metal 02:20:01.820 --> 02:20:03.520 shows like that dude 02:20:03.700 --> 02:20:05.480 has this t-shirt on which I know 02:20:05.760 --> 02:20:06.399 nothing about 02:20:07.181 --> 02:20:35.080 And it's like, you need to kick him out. Or, you know, it's on social media, like we got pressured to cancel shows because somebody is offended by, you know, something that happened in this, you know, this guy's past. You know, it's happened. Like, so I'm front and center of it, it being forced to being ignorant of some of this other stuff that's going on. And there's all this pressure going on. 02:20:36.040 --> 02:21:05.760 That if I don't give the right answer. You'll get canceled too. Yeah, I'm going to get canceled too. You know, and I, and there is this overarching pressure that sometimes I feel as a quasi promoter, producer, whatever host of metal shows that there's an outside influence that yes, you can say like, well, you know, people can make up their own minds, but there's an external pressure. I'm just saying. 02:21:05.760 --> 02:21:35.620 Yes. Anyway. You're right. And I'm going to say something, and it's not me comparing it all, because you are clearly multiple times have been in it and had to deal with it. Before this book came out, like I said earlier, I'm a public high school teacher. I was extremely worried about what might happen. 02:21:36.819 --> 02:22:05.280 how this might be misread or how, you know, all the... Yeah, no, this is interesting. I didn't expect you to say this, please. Complaining before the book was even out there. Yeah. There were a couple of places. First of all, there were a couple of, you know, really awful people making comments. But even there were people on, you know, my side of the political spectrum who were, you know, uncomfortable with, 02:22:05.960 --> 02:22:11.820 me not condemning people as much. I was really worried 02:22:13.800 --> 02:22:20.780 that some people could come after me because I'm writing about black metal and come after my job. 02:22:21.860 --> 02:22:30.240 Well, my job is funded by taxpayer money. And so what happened? Like, so, so again, I'm not comparing. I hear you. I had some of those worries. 02:22:30.660 --> 02:23:00.600 That's interesting. I didn't expect you to say that. And that's funny. That's really a thoughtful thing to hear, especially because I wasn't sure there was a parallel there to what you were saying. Well, but yeah, that's like, this is a good point about the cancel thing. Yeah. Part of my thing, I guess my perspective is that it appears to me that Phil Insomno has been given some sort of pass because he's famous and all this stuff where I stopped. 02:23:00.660 --> 02:23:30.640 like in Pantera a long time ago. So it was not hard for me to be like, well, fuck that guy. Fuck him. Fuck his beliefs. And I like Daniel's point, though, too, that sometimes it might feel that way. First off, I don't know that he's on the front cover of everything. So there's that. But second, that there isn't a group forgive here. There's not, you know, there are those of us and George said it, too, that are just like, fuck this guy. You know what I mean? And there's probably plenty of us. So famous people like Phil Anselmo, when they speak, the media is going to 02:23:31.341 --> 02:23:58.820 Yeah. Regardless of what the media judges them to be, they're like, it's a famous person. We have to cover this. And so he still gets to do interviews about his shitty black metal bands that suck balls. And, you know, clearly he's not on the same level as he was when he was in Pantera. Not even close. Not even close. The quality has certainly gone down. 02:23:59.960 --> 02:24:29.400 Sorry, Dan, what were you going to say? Like a third of the book is about scour, so what are you talking about? Yeah. But so I go ahead. It's just that, you know, yeah, when you reach a certain level, you still get, I think, a certain level of media. Yeah. Attention. Attention. Regardless of whether you're an asshole or not, just because they know who you are. And so. 02:24:30.840 --> 02:24:59.340 Yeah, yeah. Fuck that guy too. Hey, I'm going to kind of switch gears here though, because I do want to hear Matt's story. And that has this story that, so Matt, you take it away. And it's a story about your book and some closure it brought him. It did. Daniel, I owe you a debt of gratitude and thanks. 30 plus years ago, I was, you know, under the age of 10. I had a cousin who got me into metal. And so. I was worried where you're going to that. Yeah, right on. 02:24:59.400 --> 02:25:28.500 He was throwing bands at me. He was a big Kiss fan and hair metal was going on. And so he turned me on to these groups. Well, he had a friend named Joe. I met Joe. Joe was cool. Joe liked metal too. A few years later, he's like, yeah, Joe's away at college. He's in a band. He's doing really good. And he said the band's name. And I was like, that is fucking genius. Like, that's the best band name I've heard. Right? I've literally probably had this band's name in my head every week for the past 30 years. It's going nowhere. 02:25:28.600 --> 02:25:57.680 The Band Doesn't Exist Anymore. I don't even know who else was in it. I don't know if they recorded anything. But every time I thought about, man, if I was ever in a band, think about like, oh, what's a cool band name? This is a cool band name. I would always go back to this band name. And then one night, I read in bed at night, so it's late. And I'm reading your book. And all of a sudden, there were the three words in the book, in the Egalok section, your interview with Jason Walton, victimized by gypsies. And of course, it's 1130. 02:25:58.000 --> 02:26:27.960 My wife is asleep. It's a Saturday night and I just want to stand up and yell, what the fuck? Like I'm ready to run outside in the middle of winter in my boxer shorts and be like, victimized by fucking gypsies. That's four words actually. Right. So I didn't know what to do. So the next day I messaged Jason, I've messaged him a few times in the past. I was like, dude, I think this is the same band that I was told about 30 plus years ago that I wondered what they sounded like. 02:26:28.979 --> 02:26:33.680 It's on Metal Archives. He's like, oh yeah, I got the demos on my Bandcamp page. 02:26:34.820 --> 02:26:37.620 Yeah, I didn't buy them. I'm waiting until the next Bandcamp day. 02:26:37.900 --> 02:26:43.160 But I was like, it's Sunday, honey. I feel great. I know about Victimized by Gypsies. 02:26:43.180 --> 02:26:45.700 I can listen to all their songs. They're playing live in Montana. 02:26:46.740 --> 02:26:50.060 Do whatever you want because I don't give a shit anymore. I have this piece of closure. 02:26:50.620 --> 02:26:51.380 Thank you very much. 02:26:52.620 --> 02:26:53.040 That's wonderful. 02:26:54.400 --> 02:26:54.980 Very nice. 02:26:55.540 --> 02:26:56.180 It is a good story. 02:26:57.000 --> 02:26:57.740 It's a really good story. 02:26:57.800 --> 02:27:27.660 Yeah, it is. Real quick story. I've actually been victimized by gypsies. Me too. Sell you some sighting for your house, Will? In 1998, I got off the train in Bucharest, Romania, which is, there's a lot of... Is this staying in or are we getting... No, no, you can keep this in. But anyway, I distinctly remember this. I get off the train in Bucharest. Roma is the correct term for gypsies. Yeah. And I immediately, 02:27:27.800 --> 02:27:57.440 accosted by a woman with her three kids. Give me money. Give me money. They just follow me around and harass me. And finally, a local person, not like a cop, not anything, just like a local person, comes up to me, shoos them away, and they're like, said something in Romanian, which, by the way, Romanian is the closest language to ancient Roman that you will get. And they're basically like, Roma. And it was them basically like, look, 02:27:57.820 --> 02:28:27.740 This guy's a tourist. Don't give him a bad name by immediately being costed and victimized by gypsies getting off the train. Nice. Anyway, that's why I'm victimized by gypsy stories. I lived in Madrid when I was a kid during the Franco era. And there we were always dealing with gypsies too. What? I've never heard that story. You lived in fucking Spain? Yeah, man. I was in Madrid for a couple of years in the early to mid 70s. What the fuck? We were there when Franco died. Like we're all like we've known you for how long? 02:28:27.820 --> 02:28:56.220 You're telling us this before. I've heard this before. Well, maybe on your group parlor chat. I mean, George says a lot of things that are long-winded. I say a lot of things that nobody listens to is what you're saying. Because it just keeps going. Hold on. We missed a good point there. I want to hear it. Who? Whose point? Oh, my gosh. We are available to talk about metal. 02:28:59.500 --> 02:29:27.780 That is a common problem on this podcast. Welcome to the podcast. We go down rabbit holes. All right. Well, I I'm done with my questions so we can get if nobody else has questions, we can get into the top five. Sure. All right, guys. So we asked you to come up with your top five USBM albums. What have you got for us? And just to just to be clear, when we 02:29:28.720 --> 02:29:57.500 So whether you've heard this or not, we count them down five to one so that one is the big reveal. And just to be clear, they have to be United States and black metal. Yes, as in USBM. In case you weren't familiar with that term. Not bowel movements. But so which of the Lady Gaga albums clogged? I thought George was going to say something. He didn't. 02:29:57.560 --> 02:30:26.260 Well, it's because that just reminded me of an album, and I'm trying to remember the name of it. You know what? Just give us our top five before George gives down another rabbit hole. Well, there's that pop black metal album, The Woman with the... Shut the fuck up, dude. You know what I'm talking about? She made some lists. God, Daniel, why did you do this? Just tell us your top five. God. Number five. Number five. I chose the self-titled Kralis record, which I get really excited about. 02:30:27.000 --> 02:30:54.500 Actually, when it first came out and I first got into it, I think like George was saying, I'm too dumb to understand that record. It took a decade plus and talking to the members of the band to start understanding it enough to hear it. And now I can hear all kinds of things going on and I love it. So yeah. Great album. Am I just going straight through? 02:30:56.980 --> 02:31:26.800 Nick do his five. Then you go to four. Yeah. Better. I want to hear a tight five from Dan. All right. You haven't picked yours, have you, buddy? All right. All right. So for Cobalt's Gin, I think is a damn near perfect record. Wonderful album. I apologize for not choosing Slow Forever. It's all right. 02:31:26.980 --> 02:31:56.680 Great album too. It was actually a close call between Jin. I also love Eater of Birds. Eater of Birds is a great record and it's probably more black metal than Jin is. But I think Jin might be a better record. So anyway. Yeah, I think so. Number three, I'm going to say, oof, Opticon and I didn't write down the record that I was choosing because I thought in the moment, 02:31:56.800 --> 02:32:26.660 I could do it. I don't know that I can. You can do it. I'm going to say tentatively on the subject of mortality. Not expected. But that might change in a couple months. All right. Well, you can come back and always change that if you want to. That's how we work here. Yeah. Is that a prelude to something that may be happening in a few months or just maybe that? That's inside. 02:32:30.739 --> 02:32:32.980 There's a track out. He just put out a new song. 02:32:33.350 --> 02:32:33.440 Yeah. 02:32:34.680 --> 02:32:35.020 No hope. 02:32:35.620 --> 02:32:38.640 If we had talked a couple weeks ago, I would not have said that. 02:32:39.160 --> 02:32:39.420 No. 02:32:41.600 --> 02:32:41.760 Yeah. 02:32:42.240 --> 02:32:42.340 Yeah. 02:32:42.410 --> 02:32:45.700 So, yeah, we'll see. 02:32:46.040 --> 02:32:46.260 Anyway. 02:32:47.620 --> 02:32:51.140 I mean, any of the Panopticon albums could easily be on the top five. 02:32:51.160 --> 02:33:19.160 Yeah, what I've said to people before is I actually listen to Panopticon's music as a continuum. It tells from beginning to end that whole discography, and it's not done yet, but it tells the story of a man's life in really deep and philosophically interesting ways. I love it. I love it. 02:33:19.220 --> 02:33:47.720 So yeah. Sorry. I don't want to. I do. I would do want to interrupt. Did either of you guys see them at Shadow Woods? No, I saw them at. Why can't I think of the name of the migration? Migration. Thank you. I saw the migration in Pittsburgh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They've I don't know if they've expanded their. 02:33:49.200 --> 02:34:19.140 their shows lately, but I know they've played very few shows, at least up to a certain point, and Shadow Woods and Migration and Decibel were some of those. And I saw them, John was with me when we saw them at Shadow Woods, and we also saw them at Decibel. Shadow Woods was awesome. And in fact, at Decibel, Austin almost knocked me over. He was on a mission to something, and he just plowed into me. But Shadow Woods, I wanted to mention because it was so cool. 02:34:20.020 --> 02:34:48.780 because they're on this little rickety stage at a renaissance fair kind of thing. And they turned off all the lights. In the woods. In the woods. It's pitch fucking black and there's just like a little bit of light. You can't see fucking two feet in front of you. And you can almost barely not see the band. And that set was fucking amazing. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Then we had to walk through the woods with our cell phones as fucking torches to fucking find our way back. 02:34:49.200 --> 02:35:19.180 It's fucking dark, but I've never been to a scene like that. So great. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, and I talked about this a little bit on our weekly Facebook where we post the albums we're listening to and what I was listening to a few weeks ago was the live migration set. And it's amazing to think about how good they sounded. I mean, I didn't, I've only seen them locally here, but how good they sounded for a band that's never, you know, had really not played live much. And, you know, to some 02:35:19.200 --> 02:35:49.020 I think you had mentioned Daniel years ago I was at a beer fest here and I had just learned of Panopticon I think roads to the north was something that the guy from NPR had talked about Viking's Choice Lars Skoltrich I think is his name yeah and I listened to it and I was like this is amazing and it incorporated the bluegrass notes that we had talked about but then I had been at the Agalog show that was here and there was a brewery called Hammerheart that was sponsoring it and brewed a certain beer well then I read that like 02:35:49.200 --> 02:36:19.160 this is the same person. So I was at this beer fest, half in the bag. And I told my buddy, I'm like, you know, I'm going to go over the Hammerheart tent. And so I went over there and he wasn't there. But all of a sudden I saw him walking by the side and I literally just went up to him and I'm like, Panopticon. And he looked at me as like, oh shit. We chatted for like 20 minutes. And to what you had mentioned, Daniel, like I literally felt like I was talking to someone I had known my whole life, like a friend, you know, just open, honest, talking about it. I mean, telling me, you know, talking about it. 02:36:19.200 --> 02:36:49.140 his life, his journey, his paths, you know, like how he felt putting out that album, Kentucky. And yeah, I mean, it was just crazy. That was a great chapter, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool. He said, yeah, he's such a cool guy. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Carry on with your list. Panhawk was my number three. So with number two, I'm going to go completely sideways and say there is a record called Noise Mongers for Goat Serpent. 02:36:52.000 --> 02:36:53.880 Of course there is. 02:36:55.840 --> 02:36:57.080 I fucking love this record. 02:36:57.980 --> 02:37:07.300 I think it's a 2004 release, but it got a re-release on Crucial Blast. 02:37:07.520 --> 02:37:09.320 It's a Hagerstown, yeah. 02:37:10.920 --> 02:37:18.521 Crucial Blast reissued Noisemongers for Goat Serpent, which is, I keep saying that because the band name is 02:37:18.520 --> 02:37:19.760 more ridiculous. 02:37:20.880 --> 02:37:23.000 The band is called NB Lulu Google. 02:37:25.560 --> 02:37:27.580 And it is the noisiest. 02:37:28.180 --> 02:37:29.080 Is that baby talk? 02:37:31.560 --> 02:37:33.100 I love it. 02:37:33.360 --> 02:37:43.220 The first disc is 29 barely, like it's not music. 02:37:43.480 --> 02:37:45.160 It's like just blasts of noise. 02:37:45.940 --> 02:38:12.780 And then 29 remixes. Oh, wow. Oh, God. So it's grind at the beginning and then remixed? It has to be heard. You have to experience a new go. You're going to have to spell that one. Three drinks in. What are you even talking about? Only three? 02:38:15.940 --> 02:38:44.940 Look for the album title. I'll send it. Damn, Dan, you're a cheap date, man. I wonder if Nick's always telling me he's going over to your house. Making me wear thongs. And kilts. Yeah, Noise Mockers for Goat Serpent by NB Lu Lu. I can't even say it anymore. NB Lu Lu Google is it's great. Everybody should listen to it. And half the people who listen to it should immediately die. The rest of us. 02:38:47.280 --> 02:38:49.040 I'm not sure about those odds 02:38:50.740 --> 02:38:51.900 number one 02:38:52.160 --> 02:38:53.460 my number one is 02:38:53.940 --> 02:38:55.000 Leviathan's 10th 02:38:55.560 --> 02:38:56.860 sub level of suicide 02:38:58.200 --> 02:38:59.520 is an 02:38:59.700 --> 02:39:01.380 incredible album front to back 02:39:01.920 --> 02:39:03.520 I don't know how that guy 02:39:04.180 --> 02:39:05.340 makes almost 02:39:05.920 --> 02:39:06.840 prog music 02:39:07.740 --> 02:39:08.980 sound so terrible 02:39:09.440 --> 02:39:11.340 and dull and dumb 02:39:11.660 --> 02:39:13.360 and boneheaded but he does it 02:39:13.960 --> 02:39:15.900 and everything about that record 02:39:17.439 --> 02:39:43.240 That's my top five. Wow. Good list. Nick, are you prepared now? Me? Yeah, you. You're going to make me go right after the guy who literally wrote the book? Absolutely. Well, you could have jumped in before him if that was a concern. You didn't expect this? You're on the podcast, man. I didn't write it out, but I'm going to do it off the top of my head. Okay. Okay. 02:39:45.920 --> 02:39:48.200 Number five would be 02:39:49.800 --> 02:39:51.080 Panopticon's Kentucky. 02:39:52.740 --> 02:39:54.440 The reason for that is 02:39:55.400 --> 02:39:58.880 I am a huge devotee of the music of the Carter family 02:39:59.920 --> 02:40:03.500 and also the Smithsonian American Anthology of Folk Music. 02:40:04.340 --> 02:40:08.240 And I believe without credible evidence 02:40:08.960 --> 02:40:12.320 that Depression-era folk music is the original black metal. 02:40:13.080 --> 02:40:14.600 So I love, 02:40:16.180 --> 02:40:17.740 I celebrate his entire catalog. 02:40:19.080 --> 02:40:19.300 Um, 02:40:19.620 --> 02:40:20.680 but I love that record. 02:40:21.520 --> 02:40:21.820 And, 02:40:21.870 --> 02:40:21.980 uh, 02:40:22.280 --> 02:40:22.660 I mean, 02:40:23.460 --> 02:40:23.700 I don't know. 02:40:24.040 --> 02:40:24.120 It, 02:40:24.180 --> 02:40:24.400 it, 02:40:25.000 --> 02:40:27.300 it really affects me on a personal level. 02:40:28.279 --> 02:40:29.680 Can I just interrupt one thing? 02:40:29.860 --> 02:40:30.220 And you know, 02:40:30.280 --> 02:40:31.720 that we actually at Atlas, 02:40:31.850 --> 02:40:34.360 we have a brewer named Michael Bolton. 02:40:34.920 --> 02:40:35.320 No shit. 02:40:36.000 --> 02:40:36.260 Amazing. 02:40:36.740 --> 02:40:37.640 It's not got to do with anything. 02:40:38.080 --> 02:40:39.200 A brewer named that, 02:40:39.360 --> 02:40:41.140 but is it Michael Bolton? 02:40:41.920 --> 02:41:11.620 It is not Michael Bolton, but we celebrate his whole catalog of brewing. Is he even the Michael Bolton from the movie Office Space? The rest of you fucktards anyway. We know Office Space. Can I ask you two quick questions about that? One is, did you watch the Ken Burns country music thing? Because I had a spiritual experience watching that. Did you see it? I have not seen that, but I also celebrate his entire catalog. The Carter family thing is so wonderfully detailed in there. Is that like Cash Carter? 02:41:13.600 --> 02:41:41.820 There's a connection between the Carter family and Johnny Cash, and that's through June Carter Cash. Yeah, correct. Exactly, yeah. I went to the Johnny Cash Museum in Nashville last year, or sorry, two years ago now. I love Johnny Cash. So my second part is only a comment, and I really am not trying to cut you off. It's just you made a really good, I like the country music as the original black metal. And quite sincerely, I like that comment. And I liked very much that the guy from Witchcraft called his new record, 02:41:41.920 --> 02:42:11.700 Black Metal. Have you heard it by any chance? No, but I'm interested. It's not Black Metal. Don't be interested. It's not Unipoled Garbage. No, no, no. Don't listen to them. There's only one person in the world who liked it, and it was Jay. It's a very sad, dry, acoustic album, and it's so appropriately named. That's all I'm going to say. Based on your comment now, I just, you validated a point of view I have. When we get done with this episode at 4 a.m. Yes. Well, 02:42:11.920 --> 02:42:41.880 That's optimistic thinking we'll be done by then. What's your next pick, Nick? So that's number five. Number four, I'm going to go with I'm going to say Wolves in the Throne Room. For me, it's going to be a toss-up between Diadem of Twelve Stars and Two Hunters. I will say it could go in either direction 02:42:41.960 --> 02:43:11.880 the direction depending on the day. The reason I feel devoted to the former is it originally came out on a local label, Vendless, which doesn't really exist anymore. And it was the first time I heard them. Two Hunters, though, is an advanced record. And I think is a pretty powerful encapsulation of that Cascadian black metal sound. So musically, I'm possibly more into 02:43:11.920 --> 02:43:39.100 that one of the two. So let's say two hunters. I think two hunters is the better. Love that. It is. It is. Diadem is more elemental, but like sometimes it's interesting to see where things start. So there's. The band is so good live too. Yeah. Okay. So that's, that's number four. Number three, I'm going to go with. 02:43:43.280 --> 02:44:10.680 I'm an introvert and as an introvert I support black metal that is made in bedrooms and can also be listened to in my bedroom. Number two would be Nakmistium's Instinct Decay and very simply because it is simultaneously the best Nakmistium record and the best Krieg record. 02:44:15.341 --> 02:44:41.540 And number one is weakling. That is the constant. Oh, wow. It comes up again. The benchmark. Yeah, I mean, it's standard setter. It's the thing that I constantly return to and an album that is able to blaze unexpected pathways. So when I go back and listen to it, I find new things that are challenging. 02:44:41.900 --> 02:45:11.880 in it and new things that are interesting that's the five awesome good job right on it was fun dan is pooping now or something he skipped i know i was like man has a long bathroom break you guys do not understand how badly i wanted to impress him oh shoot well he does listen to this podcast so he's going to be surprised he'll hear it i'll tell you what when he comes back we'll all pretend we were just crying and say 02:45:11.920 --> 02:45:41.860 I was really moved by that. I've never heard of that. You can also just tell them to fast forward to hour 6, minute 35, and then just pick it up from there. I'm going to make you guys just say something to the effect of, like, it really should have been me writing this book. Sure, yeah. Okay, all right. I'm on it. Daniel, are you going to write a book? Because I know you do a lot of work for Decibel. Are you planning on writing a book yourself? I don't think you would want to read a book. 02:45:41.900 --> 02:45:48.040 I did have one other question that I didn't ask 02:45:50.280 --> 02:45:53.500 that you could start with and he could answer when he comes back. 02:45:54.060 --> 02:45:55.740 How did you get into writing in general? 02:45:58.660 --> 02:45:59.800 What got you into it? 02:46:00.540 --> 02:46:01.660 You failed math, right? 02:46:02.820 --> 02:46:02.960 Me? 02:46:05.140 --> 02:46:06.480 No, not at all. 02:46:07.880 --> 02:46:10.320 My background is pretty much the same as Dan's. 02:46:13.681 --> 02:46:40.000 We're both liberal arts majors. So, I don't know. It's always something I was interested in. I started writing for my school newspaper when I was in fourth grade. And I had a movie column because I idolized Roger Ebert. Not Siskel, but Ebert. Oh, yeah. Fair. Siskel was a prick. Right. Well, I mean, I feel like Bernie better than Bert. 02:46:40.420 --> 02:47:10.360 You know, that's like, I liked Ebert. And Ebert was the more caustic one. He was funnier. You know, like he could really dismantle something. Where the fuck is this conversation going? Way to make an entrance. I did. I felt, you know, I felt sad about Diadem because, not sad, 02:47:11.040 --> 02:47:40.380 I just think the two hunters is a better pick. Oh, so you heard what he was saying. Yeah. Well, the door was open. I was like, you know, I was questioning. And then we felt it out together. And you know what? Celestial lineage might be even better. Hmm. Cisco and Ebert. No, that was such a good, that was such a good, it wasn't a double take. I'm so glad to hear that because I kind of feel that 02:47:40.420 --> 02:47:40.860 That way sometimes. 02:47:43.880 --> 02:47:44.440 What's up? 02:47:45.920 --> 02:47:48.600 Well, we're asking Nick how he got into writing. 02:47:49.659 --> 02:47:50.540 You're up next. 02:47:51.820 --> 02:47:53.340 But writing in general. 02:47:53.580 --> 02:47:55.100 Ernie and Bert got you into writing? 02:47:55.460 --> 02:47:55.580 Yeah. 02:47:57.360 --> 02:47:59.320 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 02:47:59.899 --> 02:48:00.980 That wasn't Ernie and Bert. 02:48:02.020 --> 02:48:03.180 That was just Sesame Street. 02:48:04.420 --> 02:48:05.180 Muppets, I think. 02:48:05.440 --> 02:48:08.160 So should we cut these guys loose and give them their freedom? 02:48:08.240 --> 02:48:38.120 Well, I still want the answer to this question. I mean, oh, you do want it. Okay. How I got into writing. Big spoon, little spoon. What's the question? Yeah. How you got into writing in general? Like, you know, what made you want to write and where did you get started doing it? The Hardy Boys. Before that, it was Jupiter wasn't the name of one of the kids. And what's the what's the? Oh, no, not the Bobsy twins. The kid. 02:48:38.340 --> 02:49:07.840 Detectives who... Encyclopedia Brown? Or was it... The boxcar children? No, not the... I was going to say the boxcar children. What do you think I am? Buster Brown? Sherlock and Holmes? I'm so influenced by this writing that I can't remember what it is. My point is this. That sounds familiar. The moment I was reading, I wanted to write stories. In fact, 02:49:07.900 --> 02:49:37.420 Before I could write, I was dictating, like I have a vivid memory of dictating a story to my father that he wrote on paper and got some like bits of cardboard and like strung it together so it was like a bound book. Aww. Yeah, I've always been a writer. Always, always, always. That's so nice. Sorry, go ahead. No, how did I start writing for Decibel? 02:49:39.839 --> 02:50:06.880 I entered a contest that one of the writers, he put an all call out there because he was doing a noise column. And he was like, hey, all you people who aren't musicians, make a bunch of noise, record it, send it to me, and I'll write you up. And so I made some really shitty noise recordings, which I still love. I sent them to him. 02:50:08.659 --> 02:50:37.760 They like said, hey, this is cool. We're going to put this up on our website. So I was in contact with the managing editor, Andrew Bonazelli. And so I emailed Andrew and I was like, hey, by the way, I'd really love to write for the magazine. Here's like a here's something I wrote. What do you think? And, you know, he got back to me. He was like, thanks, but we're not looking for anybody new right now. And, you know, that was a pretty like form letter kind of a thing. 02:50:38.719 --> 02:51:07.360 He said, you know, maybe contact us again in a couple months. And it was a brush off, or I think it was supposed to be a brush off. But I did not read between those lines. What you heard was, so you're saying there's a chance. I am that guy. And so in a few months, I emailed him again. I was like, hey, I'd really like to write for Decibel. Here's, you know, a sample. What do you think? 02:51:07.900 --> 02:51:36.340 And I got the same email back. Maybe you're not looking for anybody right now, but maybe, you know, you could get in touch in a few months. And you would think that I'd be getting the hint by now. Hell no, I didn't take the hint. So in a few months, I emailed Andrew again. Hey, I'd like to write for Decibel. What do you think? This time, he ignored me and didn't respond at all. And it took several more months after that. 02:51:36.400 --> 02:52:04.200 I developed a kind of a repertoire of stuff that I did for the Chronicles of Chaos website. And then I contacted Albert and said, hey, I've been doing this for a while. What do you think? And a couple weeks later, he said, usually I say thanks, but no thanks. But let's give this a shot. Wow. That made my year. Fuck yeah, dude. Did I have to? 02:52:06.380 --> 02:52:10.540 to tell you a funny very brief story but it was because you mentioned the hardy boys and you guys 02:52:11.020 --> 02:52:17.260 everybody here must have watched um futurama right hang on the three investigators there it is i'm 02:52:17.480 --> 02:52:23.040 i just looked that up and i was wondering if that was it yeah but so were you guys future futureama 02:52:23.180 --> 02:52:29.480 watchers by any chance nobody not really i like well there was a there was a there was this one where 02:52:29.540 --> 02:52:33.500 these brains invaded the earth and the only way that you could defeat the brains was by using your 02:52:34.260 --> 02:53:03.460 So Fry ends up at the New York Public Library, and he's trying to find the right book to read, to use his imagination to defeat the brains. And this is the dialogue that happens. He picks up one book, and he doesn't understand it. He throws it down. He picks up another one, and it's Nancy Drew, and he goes, too hard. That's it. Stop. In any case, I think we are nearing the end of our time together, which is a relief, but makes me sad. 02:53:03.520 --> 02:53:33.480 Well, a relief for you guys anyway. Yeah, for you guys. We still have more shit to do. A little bit. But what fun to talk to you guys, man. Truly. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for putting up with us. Thank you very much. So we can discover what your top five picks are. Let's go straight to the end. Well, I mean, I can edit this out. No, I can't because we... No, lad. Yeah. Yeah. No, sorry. You have to wait. Why not? Because none of us know what each other's is, and that's half the 02:53:34.580 --> 02:54:03.340 But George is in touch with you in some way because I really do want to get a signed book. Me too. Okay, so I'll, okay, cool. Can I, can I just make a plug and thank Nick? You reached out to me and said, you should have Dan on. And I said, fuck no, that guy's a fucked hard. And then I'm like, no, no, no, I'm kidding. No, but Nick, Nick really did reach out to me. And he's like, have Dan on. And then Dan's like, you should have Nick on. 02:54:03.500 --> 02:54:33.460 And then so here we are and seriously guys. Well, I mean, actually, thanks to you, Will, and thanks to all of you for having us on and letting me crash Dan's party and your general hang. And thank you for providing the service of this podcast. Like, this is literally the most immersive podcast. What a diplomatic description. I want to say this. 02:54:33.520 --> 02:55:00.280 What does he say? Immersive podcast. Immersive means we all have the biggest penises. No, it means it takes over your whole life because it takes 12 hours to listen to. I like to think of it as it's value added. I got into podcasting because of Kevin Smith and his podcasts. Which are probably like an hour long. Yes, they are. But the point is, I was always disappointed because I was like, shit, I've got to wait another week for another hour. 02:55:03.520 --> 02:55:33.340 If you have an hour long commute, you can listen to us all Monday through Friday on your commute. And then, you know, what's funny, George, is that you could read Daniel's book three times and it would be the same amount of time as this podcast. If you'd like to do that, I'll post it. We really are going to let you guys go, but I want to tell you something. I'm not joking. You are my favorite guest we've ever had on this show. 02:55:33.500 --> 02:55:40.420 I do not I do not I love you guys are wonderful please stay in touch 02:55:46.330 --> 02:55:52.120 can we title the podcast by the way we've had Albert on we've had James on so you can you can throw that in all 02:55:52.130 --> 02:55:57.540 their faces and say we were the best because Jay said so I'm in that about bands and everything 02:55:58.899 --> 02:56:26.640 I'm telling you that's from the heart. I want to be your. I want to be your. Everyone, by the way. Fuck you. And you know, we're going to get Jay Bennett, but we're going to tell him that you guys are the best. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you guys very much. Thanks for the awesome book. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Looking forward to part two. Yeah. Cool. All right. Take care, guys. Seriously, guys. 02:56:27.660 --> 02:56:56.840 As soon as we can get shows back at Atlas, I want to see you guys there. Definitely will be there. Yeah, I want to have some beers with you guys. The last show I've been to was at Atlas. Which one was it? Do you remember? Okay, well, there we go. Well, my last show was put on by Will, but it was at Adroit Theory. Yeah, I think I saw Mismore in Hell. I remember that. 02:56:57.640 --> 02:57:27.180 I think that might be the last time I got asked. Is that also Soar? No, Soar was... I don't think so. No, Soar was the same week as Chemist and Tumult. They were with... Wayfair. Wayfair. Yeah. God, that was a good show. Except for the power went out. Anyway. It was hot. Gentlemen, we bid you adieu. Thank you very much. Thank you. Brothers. Well, guys, thanks a lot for talking to you. Thanks. Bye. Bye, guys. 02:57:28.660 --> 02:57:56.520 All right, so that was our interview with Daniel Lake and Nick Green of Decibel Magazine. Make sure to pick up his book, USBM, A Revolution of Identity in American Black Metal. All right, well, why don't we move on and do our t-shirt and beer check, starting with Markison. Yeah, well, since today is all about American Black Metal, I wore my yellow eyes t-shirt, well, one of them. 02:57:57.280 --> 02:58:27.200 And this is from the Immersion Trench Reverie album from a few years back. Nice. You know, I think I'm going to have to listen to them again, unfortunately. I mean, I have vehemently despised them for years. Yes. But I'm currently experiencing, because of Dan's book, a new black metal renaissance. And I accept things, you know, 02:58:27.260 --> 02:58:56.480 that I didn't accept before. So I'll have to check that out. And what are you drinking? I am drinking Brimminghorn Meadery's Basic Witch. And this has a blend of honey, pumpkin, and spices to comfort you as the days grow shorter and the air turns cool and crisp. Autumn is here and it's time for the Basic Witch. There are no seasons here, so it doesn't matter. It's pretty good. Yeah, I just got mine. 02:58:57.280 --> 02:59:02.140 I just got my notice as I expect all of you did to like yesterday that 02:59:02.360 --> 02:59:27.240 they're shipping the next batch of stuff so looking forward to that add it to my stockpile I like this one it's pumpkin one real good nice all right master of Snuggieville I let's see on the outside I've got a I was gifted this for Christmas it is the original Star Wars poster I believe the Japanese version of it underneath that I have a Celtic cross shirt that I purchased at 02:59:27.260 --> 02:59:56.520 at Decibel Music and Beer Fest, which we were all at in 2019 and will be at again in 2021, hopefully. September 25th and 26th. That's right. I booked my hotel last night, a.k.a. my wife did. I am drinking the Ocho. It is a collaboration brew from McKiller. And I can't see who else, but it is a bourbon barrel aged stout and it's fabulous. Fabulous. 02:59:57.260 --> 03:00:27.200 AKA listen to my speech as it slows over the next two hours. All right. John. Oh, so I'm wearing my hard to see, but it's neon green, kind of like George's. And there's like a big planet there somewhere. My can't see two walks. My camera's kind of low on my laptop. It's my blood incantation. We really appreciate that. Yeah. A low view. We got to stop doing that. Yeah. What would Joel say? 03:00:27.699 --> 03:00:56.240 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that works with, by the way, that works with WWJD. We could do What Would Joe Do? Yeah. All right, from now on, I saw what that means on this show. Pardon me, Joe. It's fine. So my short is Blood Incantation's Interdimensional Extinction. It's an old sci-fi famous picture of a moon, or I guess Saturn or something like that with rings, but the rings are made up of skulls. Nice. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. 03:00:57.240 --> 03:01:27.180 Jay, you may have seen it. I know Jay follows some of the sci-fi sites that have all the artwork from like the 50s through the 70s. That's one of them. It's on there all the time. And I'm drinking a classic, Le Fin de Monde from Unibrew, Belgian triple. Nice. One of my favorite beers ever. You like those Belgians. This is one of the best ones in the world. It's like the end of the world in Belgians. Unibrew, they should have a picture of, 03:01:29.060 --> 03:01:30.220 Spanish artist on it. 03:01:31.739 --> 03:01:33.660 Actually, the picture on this... 03:01:33.830 --> 03:01:35.740 Or me before Barb gets the tweezers out. 03:01:37.080 --> 03:01:37.440 Unibrew. 03:01:38.370 --> 03:01:38.520 Yeah. 03:01:38.910 --> 03:01:41.360 I think the image on this bottle is Quebec. 03:01:43.380 --> 03:01:43.640 So... 03:01:43.680 --> 03:01:44.600 Is that where they're out of? 03:01:45.160 --> 03:01:45.380 Yes. 03:01:45.820 --> 03:01:46.040 Montreal. 03:01:47.720 --> 03:01:47.900 Nice. 03:01:48.140 --> 03:01:49.220 I think it's Montreal, isn't it, Will? 03:01:49.580 --> 03:01:50.460 Yeah, it is. 03:01:50.620 --> 03:01:54.800 But nice that such a fine Belgian would come from, you know, outside Belgium. 03:01:54.890 --> 03:01:57.220 And I'm not saying other people aren't doing it, but... 03:01:57.240 --> 03:02:25.120 Shockingly, North America has some decent ones in Canada and the US. All right, Will. Actually, let me interrupt real quick. Did anybody ever have, I think Will might have had it, did anybody have the Maiden thing that had a Belgian thing to it? Yeah, I don't remember the name of it. I think Metal Chris from DCHeavenMetal.com brought it in to Atlas one day. And, you know, it's, 03:02:27.240 --> 03:02:57.200 I don't like all the the Robinson's Iron Maiden Robinson breweries Iron Maiden beers like they're all good for English styles of beer is it going to blow anyone's socks off here in America with what we have or you know is some Belgian brewery gonna be like holy crap this is good no but is it is it good yeah it's good for their style and it says Iron Maiden so that makes it taste better yeah yeah yeah indeed you gotta have it because it's Iron Maiden but I don't think those beers are 03:02:57.840 --> 03:03:01.980 I do see Trooper in the store every now and again. At this point, I just bypass it. 03:03:03.360 --> 03:03:05.480 Unless it's one I haven't had. I collect the bottles. 03:03:06.080 --> 03:03:09.000 Yeah, me too. I've looked for the variants, but I can't. I haven't found them all. 03:03:09.330 --> 03:03:10.180 Did they do a Porter? 03:03:11.290 --> 03:03:13.520 Yeah, it was Trooper Dark, Red and Black. 03:03:13.780 --> 03:03:15.880 I think that was my favorite one that they've done. 03:03:16.480 --> 03:03:19.200 I think the Belgian, was it a Charger Light Brigade or something? 03:03:19.230 --> 03:03:20.140 What was the Belgian one? 03:03:21.040 --> 03:03:21.340 No. 03:03:23.040 --> 03:03:23.740 I'll look it up. 03:03:23.930 --> 03:03:26.680 In any case, you also had the Sun and Steel one, Will. 03:03:27.319 --> 03:03:56.160 Maybe that's the Belgian one. No, that's like... That's a sake or something. Yeah. Got a sake thing. Maybe. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. The sake yeast. Yeah, you can make beer with a sake, a yeast strain that's typically used for sake. I think I've had most of them. The Belgian one is called Hallowed. Yes, I had that one. Yeah, that's the one that'll Chris give me. I think that was the best of the bunch. Oh, hey. 03:03:57.520 --> 03:04:26.720 I'm sorry that I really made us go down this rabbit hole, but I did hear about this one and I never saw it. They did a Trooper IPA. Yeah, I've had that. You had that and then there's a stout called the Fear of the Dark. Jesus, I haven't seen it. That's newer. I haven't tried that one. Yeah. In any case, what are you drinking? Well, I'm sorry. That was all me. I'm pulling a J tonight. I'm drinking his soda stream with some yellow stuff in it because I had I just had two beers. The 03:04:26.740 --> 03:04:56.720 My neighbor came over and as I do, I was like, do you want a cool refreshing adult beverage? He's like, sure. So we had the, so speaking of Iron Maiden, we had the Iron Master from my old brewery, my previous brewery, Fairwinds Brewing Company. They make an Iron Maiden themed beer with the Iron Maiden font that says Iron Master. It's a hazy IPA, but it's not really that hazy. It's really more just unfiltered and it's damn delicious. It has a lot of really grapefruit hop flavor come through it. And then after that, I had a 03:04:56.740 --> 03:05:26.680 a center of the universe beer, which is a brewery, pretty good brewery down in just north of Richmond in Virginia. And they make an STFU, shut the fuck up beer. It's a Belgian Imperial style Asian bourbon barrels. So I had one of those before I, and then I was in a rush to kick my neighbor out, run downstairs, keep the kids quiet and, and, and join you guys slightly on time. So I don't have a beer. 03:05:28.959 --> 03:05:56.520 You are Jay-ing the episode. I mean, literally, I finished the last sip and ran down here. So it's like... So you're just saying you don't have one in hand, but you will when you can get to it. Yes, there's beer in my system. You're not turning your nose up at it and saying I'm only drinking coffee. Yeah. All right, Skip J. What are you drinking, George? Well, what's he wearing? Oh, come on. My feelings. Wait, my feelings. No, actually, 03:05:56.760 --> 03:06:26.720 I do have since I always have my reserve for later in the evening I brought another one of those reserve big baptists that I had this one is like this is an expensive one I can't remember the name of it I'll have to go look again but it's the well it's their usual kind of thing like the imperial styles with the variants they have a lot of variants this year and this is a variant but it's got some cinnamon in it maybe a little vanilla if I remember right it was good I really liked it last time so I got that and 03:06:26.760 --> 03:06:56.720 got some prohibition ale in the fridge too. But I'm wearing my, I guess you would call it distressed, screaming for vengeance shirt. Still kind of on a priest kick. Shocking. Representing today. I've also decided for those of you who think Defenders of the Faith is their best album. That no. It's not a think. It's a no. Okay. That screaming for vengeance is better than Defenders of the 03:06:56.760 --> 03:06:59.660 I've decided even though I didn't used to see it that way so that's my new 03:07:00.500 --> 03:07:02.000 staying class is still the best record 03:07:02.340 --> 03:07:04.500 so you took it long enough 03:07:04.680 --> 03:07:05.420 Jay to get to that one 03:07:06.100 --> 03:07:06.960 sorry about that John 03:07:09.579 --> 03:07:10.060 yeah 03:07:10.840 --> 03:07:11.420 as you will 03:07:13.820 --> 03:07:14.300 George 03:07:15.359 --> 03:07:17.940 I've just got a Sierra Nevada 03:07:18.659 --> 03:07:19.620 Dankful IPA 03:07:20.240 --> 03:07:22.400 just kind of clearing out the fridge 03:07:26.239 --> 03:07:26.720 and 03:07:28.100 --> 03:07:56.520 T-shirt. That's a good-looking shirt. I like that picture. It's pretty evil. I got another one, but it got a hole immediately, so I was like, damn it. Is that guy missing a tooth? Yeah, I think he is. He's dead and all, so shit falls off. Skin, hair. Yeah, that's the one thing John. I'll be damned. Why is that skull gumming it? John's like, oh, yeah, you got something on your face there, buddy. Hold on. Oh, 03:07:56.740 --> 03:08:25.700 Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, speaking of Jay and things, let's move on to John, who is going to give us some statistics. Yeah, I'll just do it real quick. We're not that far removed from the year end, but it seems like after a while, this all becomes a blur because we put so much into it. But anyway, put a few things together and I'll just go straight to the meat of it. 03:08:25.720 --> 03:08:29.600 The J Awards, a.k.a. The John Awards. 03:08:30.380 --> 03:08:32.740 I almost feel like somebody else should be presenting them. 03:08:34.120 --> 03:08:40.020 Actually, before he does this, since it is that way, John, can I just say I cannot wait for the new chemist record so I can torpedo it? 03:08:42.620 --> 03:08:46.740 Maybe you will change your tune. Maybe you'll like, oh, man, this is so good. 03:08:47.000 --> 03:08:52.480 What he's going to do is he's going to put it at 25, so at least makes his list, but he won't get the J Award for it. 03:08:52.660 --> 03:08:54.460 That's exactly right. That's exactly right. 03:08:54.680 --> 03:09:22.740 You know, Jay, I did notice that despite that you consider them the poor man's pallbearer, you do not have the new pallbearer on your list. I think pallbearer is the poor man's pallbearer now. And I do, of course. I think that this is not, but I do, of course, like Kenneth more than I let on. But I do regret that comment. I don't know if they like you anymore, though. Did they ever like him? No, probably not. 03:09:24.680 --> 03:09:54.620 So real quick, I'll run through them. We only had four this year. And surprisingly, I took three of them. And the three albums that I jayed, Incantation, Sectophile Divinities, everybody was in the top five for that one, except for me. You're in the no five. You had not. So the Jay Awards is when everyone really likes an album and someone just leaves it off their list. Entirely. Which is named after our very own Jay Dickinson, who did, was it Chemist that you did that for? 03:09:55.359 --> 03:10:21.820 I've done it to a few, but Canvas is the famous one. That's the one where I really, because I kept it from being number one. It was still on your list, though, right? If I recall, it was 17. Thank you for that. Well, I usually don't say it anymore because we mention it so much, but it's a good idea. I probably should have mentioned that. But moving along, the second album I torpedoed, Ulcerate, Staring to Death and Be Still. 03:10:24.680 --> 03:10:52.200 Fairly high, I think for the most part. No worse than 13 by Jay. So, but me, zero. And then the third one I killed, A Feather and Bone, Sulphuric, Disintegration. Everyone had that on their list. Kind of sporadic between 5 and 18. Mine was zero again. But I wasn't the only one. You're not the only one. Will torpedoed an album too. And believe it or not, 03:10:54.680 --> 03:11:23.800 It was pretty close. This album was second to Incantation, and that was Enslaved, Utgard. That's right. Missed it by two points on our little, the way we compute it. What I find even funnier, George, is had you not listened to Abagor, you would have lost by one. And Will would have really killed that album by not having it on his list. Enslaved is Will's chemist, actually. 03:11:24.660 --> 03:11:54.500 Yeah. No, well, it is, but it isn't. I like old enslaved. I don't. Enslaved to me now is sort of like, and dare I even make this analogy, and you guys will kick another podcast, but they're kind of like the Metallica now. The earlier stuff was incredible, and what they are now is nothing like they used to be. So you can go ahead and stop. Yeah. I really don't understand why you guys. Not even remotely close. What? Yeah. 03:11:54.660 --> 03:12:23.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. No, no vocal reaction response is enough to stop. There was literally jaws dropped there. That was awesome to see. It was literally a bunch of, I just really, I mean, I have to give real credit though. He did try. He, he tried to listen. I tried. I did. And it's just like, Oh, this sounds good. Oh, this part really sucks. Yeah. I give you credit for standing your ground. I'm all for it. I just don't. Give me frost. Give me frost any day and I'll love it. 03:12:23.700 --> 03:12:52.240 This new stuff, the last couple albums, like E and all that stuff you guys love, I just don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get how you would compare that catalog to Load, Reload, and the Black Album. That's actually pretty damn insulting. To me, it's the point of you had a band that was awesome. There was nothing. Don't fix it. Just give me the same album. Give me Frost. Every album. ACDC that shit. 03:12:52.720 --> 03:13:22.340 Right, but when you change your sound so, so much and you go off on this tangent of this clean singing and the proggy stuff. You know they were clean singing on Frost, right? Yeah, but not like the way it is now. I'd like to offer up that today's Thunderdome is a lesson in exactly what you're talking about, Will, in my mind. We'll chew that fat when we get there. Actually, who came up with the Thunderdome? Because I think it's brilliant in a lot of ways. 03:13:22.700 --> 03:13:52.160 Yeah, it's good. It's great. I will also say. We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Come Monday, and we hear that Bob Rock is producing the next Enslave album. We talked of it here first. By the way, not in the news. Did you guys see that? Not in that script. Did you guys see that he sold his rights? Yeah. That's what made me think of it. Did anybody see how much he got for it? No. Please tell me he had more than Lars had, because that would really make me laugh even more. 03:13:52.720 --> 03:14:22.260 Well, it's funny. I've always wondered what kind of ASCAP situation producers end up in. Well, he's Bob Rock, though. So my guess is he was on the higher end of that. I should think so. Yeah, so he probably got a big check. I'm sure that's fair. What did he sell his rights to? Like everything he's ever produced? No, just the stuff. I think it was Metallica and a few others, but it was some hotshot metal stuff mostly. And the Metallica being the key one. That would have been the big payoff. 03:14:22.700 --> 03:14:51.860 He just cleaned up I'm sure. Anyway, I keep diverging us. What's there more stats to share, John? Oh, just real quick. So for our labels, surprisingly this year, it was a corporate label year. All the fairly big metal labels dominated our lists. Just real quick, in order from six all the way down to four in terms of the number of albums that showed up on our list. Individual ones, not showing up multiple times, same album. 03:14:51.920 --> 03:15:20.720 But Century Media topped our list, which I was disappointed to see because I fucking hate that label so much. Yeah. They're literally the worst at distributing their own products. Let's clarify. They're the worst because they don't give out promos. But they're also late. I mean, a bunch of shit comes late with them. Yeah. They're using the excuse that it's COVID, but how come all these other labels like Nuclear Blast are able to get stuff out maybe one or two days late max? You know? 03:15:24.580 --> 03:15:49.780 Yeah, they suck. The next one was Season of Mist. Then Prosthetic Records had five each. And then Nuclear Blast and Metal Blade had four each. So it was kind of a big label. Big label meaning small labels, but big labels for the metal world itself. So we didn't see too many of those smaller labels like we did a few years ago. I think we didn't one year like Ivoid Hanger like dominate all our lists. 03:15:51.940 --> 03:16:21.040 up there a few times. I avoid hanging. It was a big one. Yeah. So for the countries, typical same stuff as usual. Although one, two kind of surprising this year. Finland topped our list. We had eight albums out of Finland this year. Yanni was happy about that. We talked to Yanni. Yeah. Finland has the most metal bands per capita in any other world, any other country in the world. That's right. Yeah, that's right. We did talk about that one. Yeah. And how interesting too. I'm sure this is the first year they've dominated the list. I can't imagine we've had another. 03:16:21.300 --> 03:16:50.820 They've always been, I think, in the top five. I think it's the first day they've taken it. The country that kind of surprised me was England second with seven. I've seen a lot of black metal coming out of England right now. And now they're getting like deathy type tech bands. So, kind of interesting. Next traditional country, Germany with six. Here's a surprise. Australia with four, and it was four different albums. You know, not just four, like, oh, we all liked one. Like, New Zealand had four. 03:16:51.240 --> 03:17:20.300 I know I had Mammon's Throne. There was probably Depravity. Who else? I think Matt had one. I had one. And maybe Jay had one, I think. I'm just going off the top of my head. Okay. That sounds right. Yeah. And then Italy with four. So we have two categories in the countries list. There's the America Fuck Yeah Award. And then there's the Global Citizen. So the America Fuck Yeah Award this year went to Matt and Will. 03:17:20.400 --> 03:17:50.320 They had 14 albums from bands. America! Fuck yeah! Suck, kiss my ass, and suck on my balls, America! Fuck yeah! So, swap out America for Will's song and call it Global Citizen. Suck my ass and balls, whatever you want to say. Like, Will just said. And Jay is our Global Citizen. 19. Fuck yeah! Globetrotter. Yeah, exactly. Impressive. Oh, you know what? You know what Australia one Jay has? 03:17:51.359 --> 03:17:51.720 That's right. 03:17:52.760 --> 03:17:53.080 Wow. 03:17:53.200 --> 03:17:55.880 I was just looking at my list to see if it was something cool and it wasn't, 03:17:56.020 --> 03:17:56.380 but fine. 03:17:57.400 --> 03:17:57.600 I mean, 03:17:57.600 --> 03:17:58.940 I still stand by that record, 03:17:59.100 --> 03:18:01.440 but William and I were in target today and he said, 03:18:01.600 --> 03:18:01.860 we were, 03:18:02.460 --> 03:18:05.500 we were just walking through target and we went through the vinyl section, 03:18:06.160 --> 03:18:06.940 such as it is. 03:18:06.980 --> 03:18:07.260 And he's like, 03:18:07.380 --> 03:18:07.520 daddy, 03:18:07.899 --> 03:18:08.820 ACDC power up. 03:18:08.840 --> 03:18:09.080 I'm like, 03:18:09.140 --> 03:18:09.240 yeah, 03:18:09.280 --> 03:18:09.980 but you already have it. 03:18:10.280 --> 03:18:10.980 Don't try and buy it again. 03:18:13.040 --> 03:18:15.360 Don't be like us old dudes that buy the same thing twice and go, 03:18:15.540 --> 03:18:15.620 Oh, 03:18:15.840 --> 03:18:16.280 I already had that. 03:18:17.160 --> 03:18:18.420 I've done that multiple times. 03:18:19.200 --> 03:18:19.800 How many times? 03:18:19.900 --> 03:18:49.640 Mine was Face... What was it? Faceless Burial. That's the band I had, so... Oh, that is a good... I did like that album. Yeah, interesting, too. They're going to tour with ACDC this year, so that's... Nice. All right, last thing. Which of us has the most lasting relationship? The matching section. It's like the newlywed game here. The people who got it on the most this year? Matt and George. They had 12 of the same albums. Nice. 03:18:50.979 --> 03:19:19.580 The Force is strong with this one. The people who didn't get it on so well, even though they're still friends, Markisan a John. And that was the prediction that you guys would have more. I know. I'm still shocked. And it was less this time. It was three. That's crazy. That's crazy. You know, that's basically Matt and George. That's 50 percent, dude. Yeah. I think I had less Prague on my list this year than I normally do. I think that's what did it. 03:19:19.900 --> 03:19:48.300 Well, I think also, too, I think we had the most different albums this year combined. We had close to 100, I think, between the six of us. That's a lot. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. So the last thing I'll do real quick. George was the highest or tied for the highest match for everyone, meaning everyone matched the most records with George, except for Markisan who matched the most with Matt. So George was everyone's daddy for the year. He's the podfather. Podfather, baby. 03:19:49.180 --> 03:20:19.120 I'll defend George Dillon, not that he needs defending, but this is maybe where we take back a little bit of the long, when I'm listening to shit we give him, because clearly he's having an influence on us here. That's interesting. You should say that, Jay, because I was everyone's lowest match this year. But does that shock anyone? That's it. I suspect this year will be different than last year. 03:20:19.760 --> 03:20:47.680 I'm worried about this year. I remember Will said, well, I don't know, at the mid-year, you better save your list because this is all we might have. And then for like four months, the metal world exploded with releases and it was amazing. And now I'm looking at this year and I'm thinking, I don't know, man, it might be a little dry. I think that too, John, but also I think there's some bands that maybe didn't release last year, but they've been working on stuff and we just don't know. I hope so. Maybe towards the end of the year again, we'll see a lot of stuff. 03:20:47.740 --> 03:21:15.740 And some of them are probably going, all right, well, we've waited long enough. You know, we held it back last year. Let's put it out now. That's a good point. Plus, and there are some we know that are in the canon already. So, I mean, a few I'm excited about. And the Exodus record is done. I'm looking forward to hearing that, you know, and yeah. There's one I can't talk about that I know is coming, but, and I'm all up. Well, I think we all know what it is then. No, not that. Not that. Not that. T6. 03:21:20.020 --> 03:21:44.940 I want to say congratulations to John for the J-Word. I think he won it last year too, right, John? So if I remember correctly. There were several. We've done this now. I think I have only calculated it for three years based on when Marcasson came on for the first time. I have his from 2017, but it'd be kind of hard to go back because we weren't talking about them at the time. 03:21:47.740 --> 03:22:17.660 I have the most with six. I think Will and George have three each. And I think Matt has one. So here's an interesting thing to point out there. That means that either Matt or Marcus and myself get the ultimate Jay Award by Jay and you guys by not getting any. Yeah, pretty much. So Jay's Jay-ing his own award, but in a different way, yes. That's it. Which, by the way, reminds me, I figured out what the saying, I can't win for losing means. Have you heard the saying? Yes. 03:22:18.520 --> 03:22:47.720 I was thinking about this the other day for no good fucking reason and this is my version of the J and the J awards and it's that I can't win for losing means that you're so long and so fucking pathetic as you're losing streak and if they had a contest for who lost the most you couldn't even fucking win that somebody's somebody would beat you somehow yeah that's that's how you get a J and the J awards right yeah I think Markisan last year I had a couple too so I I've been uh racking them up lately I think it needs to be changed to just the 03:22:47.760 --> 03:23:17.600 Letter J? Because... Well, I did say the J Awards, did I not? Yes, but, you know, it's not J-A-Y anymore. It's just J. Yeah, like Men in Black. Also, do you remember when Homer Simpson found out what his middle name was? Homer J. Simpson. Oh, yeah. He found his mom in some episode of J. He was like, oh, find like a phenomenal middle name. His middle name was J. You know, it's funny. My wife never had a middle name. 03:23:17.900 --> 03:23:46.380 And my her brother, my brother-in-law, he only has a middle initial, R. Really? Yeah. And it doesn't stand for anything. It doesn't stand for anything. I would actually like that because they could just change it depending on who you want to be for that day. Today, I'm Raquel. I'm Rachel. I'm Ray. Well, it makes you wonder if J.R.R. Tolkien is in there. Rachel Ray. You've been watching the Cooking Network or something? You just dropped the Rachel Ray on us. Rachel Ray. Rachel Ray. 03:23:49.159 --> 03:24:16.880 Are you going to talk about the decibel comparisons at all? Because I thought that was pretty interesting. Especially since we're interviewing a couple of decibel guys. Yeah, I could. I didn't do it just because I know we were pressed for time, but we could do it the next time if you want. Okay. Yeah. Basically what I did is I took our top 25s back to 2017. So since Marcus was with us for 2018, I asked him to send 2017 because that was Matt's first year. 03:24:17.760 --> 03:24:18.660 And there is no, 03:24:19.260 --> 03:24:22.020 it doesn't affect anything in terms of how we determine our top 25. 03:24:22.130 --> 03:24:23.460 I just wanted to see what we all picked. 03:24:23.900 --> 03:24:31.780 And so I put that together and it's fairly interesting to see what albums we all gravitated towards. 03:24:32.060 --> 03:24:34.780 And some years that Markisan called it actually, 03:24:35.040 --> 03:24:38.060 when he said he didn't think he'd have that many on this year compared to previous years. 03:24:38.090 --> 03:24:38.620 And it was right. 03:24:38.620 --> 03:24:40.760 And some of us have more than others. 03:24:40.940 --> 03:24:42.440 It just fluctuates based on the year, 03:24:42.600 --> 03:24:44.020 but we, 03:24:44.779 --> 03:24:45.840 to the decimal list, 03:24:45.850 --> 03:24:46.120 you mean? 03:24:46.320 --> 03:24:46.460 Yeah. 03:24:46.540 --> 03:24:47.200 To the decimal list. 03:24:47.540 --> 03:25:17.480 Which feels so randomized to me sometimes. And it was mentioned here previously that it's because there's so many contributors to that list, clearly. I mean, because there's always a few weird left field fucking choices in there. But I will say this, and this is not a knock on decibel. I don't know. Have you guys ever gone back and searched for their old lists? You put in like decibel top, whatever. You could like literally put Reddit and some guy posted it to Reddit and it turns into some shitshow discussion. But I'd have to say the last five or six years, their lists have gotten a lot better than what they used to be. 03:25:17.520 --> 03:25:46.820 Yeah. Some of those older lists, I was like, I don't know about some of these records. But that's whenever we look at a list from whoever it is. I look at my own lists and I'm like, really? Me too. You guys heard the expression slash and burn? Yeah. That's an expression like when they take down Forrest, they call it slash and burn. That's what I've done to I don't know how many lists. I slash and burned already 2015 and 16 on the podcast. I'm like, pfft. 03:25:48.180 --> 03:26:16.480 If we go back and redo them, that's not even half those albums aren't even on my list this time. Agreed, yeah. That could be an episode where we like 2015 redux. You know, this is our list now. We're pretty fun, actually. We're pretty fun, actually. We're pretty fun, actually. Previous. Yes. I don't know what the hell I was thinking about that album by that band. Geez. Thanks for doing those stats, John. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. 03:26:16.600 --> 03:26:37.500 We have fun to look at those. Sorry, Mark. I thought about the desk, but we could set that up if we want to do that next time. I just think you put the work in. I think it's really interesting, the comparisons with it. But yeah, we could talk more about it in another cast. Sounds good. Let's move on to the news then, all full of unicorns and fluffy bunnies. 03:26:52.260 --> 03:27:15.980 So, first up, Alexi from Children of Bodom died. That's how we started our year. It was literally right. Was it the first day of the year? Well, it sounds like they didn't announce it until the first few days of the year, but it might have been like end of December. Okay. Still no word that I'm aware of on what happened, although. 03:27:18.619 --> 03:27:46.200 For years he's been talking about how much of a beating he's given his body over the years and how he quit drinking and stuff. And, you know, he probably had, I don't know, liver problems, cirrhosis, or who the hell knows what. Yeah. History, to put it mildly. And they did at least make the statement that he had been dealing with health issues for the last few years. So, right. And I think it's probably exactly one of those things you just said, George, that some, 03:27:47.159 --> 03:28:16.540 I don't think they were super surprised. He was only like what 41 42 something like that. I'm like 41 that's insane. That's heartbreaking. Yeah somebody dies. Especially as long as I've known about him you know I mean he had to be like 18 when the first album came out. I was just gonna say you beat me to it that's just to show how young he was when he first started and he just I wasn't a big fan but obviously the guy had talent. There's no doubt about that and he just blazed from the very beginning. I am not a big fan. 03:28:16.600 --> 03:28:46.560 I don't even fan either John but I would say he's so far as to say he's like a prodigy level guitar player just like one of those guys it's just like did this guy ever not have a guitar he was so influenced a lot of young kids to pick a guitar yeah that's true so he could he could definitely uh riff oh yeah I remember watching him live like front row at 930 club uh like in front of the stage just going him and the keyboard player too at the time actually all those guys in the band well I mean they all were just like what 03:28:46.560 --> 03:29:13.200 Fuck. So that is, that was just heart rending crushing news. I mean, 41, I mean, I'm 45 now and I feel like I'm just getting started in what I want to accomplish in life. So 41, I mean, I just imagine there was so much more he wanted to do. You know, it's funny, Marcus, why are you saying that? Cause like, I'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Like I did all the stuff I wanted to do early. And now it's like, slow decline. 03:29:16.079 --> 03:29:45.460 Heading Down That Hill Open Grave at the bottom Will's in the bonus round at this point just like every day is good luck You're assuming there's a bonus round yeah I didn't I mean I did a lot of stuff when I was young but I feel like when I hit 40 I really just started ramping up everything that I wanted to do I just can I just say you blossomed I kind of did not have done the stuff I do now when I was younger to put it in John 03:29:46.819 --> 03:29:48.160 You've matured as an artist 03:29:48.960 --> 03:29:50.540 Oh, I hate that expression 03:29:53.359 --> 03:29:54.160 It's because 03:29:54.760 --> 03:29:56.880 I understand the expression, I just think it's condescending 03:29:56.920 --> 03:29:58.080 to use sometimes, that's all 03:29:58.600 --> 03:30:00.280 I like Blossom, Blossom's good 03:30:00.700 --> 03:30:02.740 Well, which is true about you, by the way 03:30:02.780 --> 03:30:04.360 You're doing some amazing stuff right now, man 03:30:04.460 --> 03:30:06.820 So, fuck yeah, but you know, lots of exciting stuff 03:30:06.920 --> 03:30:07.880 coming down the pike, and you're 03:30:08.720 --> 03:30:10.180 having exciting times, you know 03:30:10.220 --> 03:30:12.680 Yeah, that's what makes me sad about 03:30:13.040 --> 03:30:14.160 Alexi, you know, just 03:30:14.160 --> 03:30:44.140 How much more life? What more could he be accomplished if he had been alive? Or got through that? If only enjoying the spoils of his career. I mean, the guy I'm sure was well off and kind of had a comfortable life. And fortunately, he did start early, so he did accomplish a lot in his life. Yeah. I did nothing when I was young, and I planned to do nothing else for the rest. So I'm just like... 03:30:44.180 --> 03:31:13.240 Yeah, that's good. Kind of driving on the side of the road, really. Kicking the tires, yeah. Wondering why this thing won't start. Yep. Why am I stuck in mud? All right. Next news item. Oh, wait. Another dead person. Marsha Zazula has also died. She at least was much older than Alexi. But, yeah, that was kind of a bummer, too. I didn't hear. 03:31:13.340 --> 03:31:43.320 Did anybody hear about, was that Cancer? Can you explain who she is? Because I don't even know. The wife of John, the Megaforce Records founders. They gave Metallica, Anthrax, other bands their start. Yeah. So pretty pitfall record company. Grew quite rich in the process. And everybody, Testament and all these other bands, you know, that they were a big part of that. And, you know, I did get 03:31:43.360 --> 03:31:50.100 very rich from it all because they were not unlike um like i mean they they owned the rights 03:31:50.480 --> 03:31:53.840 for their as far as a record company goes to kill them all and then they sold millions and 03:31:53.960 --> 03:31:58.040 millions of copies and so is other things so they've done quite well for themselves i had the good 03:31:58.220 --> 03:32:04.240 fortune to meet them both um you guys may recall back at the it was a you took pictures with them 03:32:04.340 --> 03:32:11.580 didn't you i did yeah it was the venom venom incorporated which is basically venom goat whore and a few other 03:32:11.580 --> 03:32:16.840 people, but Venom Incorporated, those guys are all friends with them, because Venom was on Metal Blade for the Possessed record. 03:32:17.160 --> 03:32:17.700 I mean, Megafor. 03:32:17.720 --> 03:32:19.360 And so every fucking buddy was there. 03:32:19.460 --> 03:32:20.220 And yeah, I ran into them. 03:32:20.240 --> 03:32:21.880 They're super sweet, but I will say this. 03:32:21.900 --> 03:32:23.560 They were both decrepit. 03:32:23.860 --> 03:32:27.760 They both were stooped over and having trouble walking, and clearly not in good health. 03:32:27.900 --> 03:32:31.420 So I wouldn't be surprised if John's not too far behind her. 03:32:31.480 --> 03:32:33.040 He looked terrible when I met him. 03:32:33.680 --> 03:32:34.360 Super friendly, though. 03:32:34.560 --> 03:32:34.980 Lovely people. 03:32:35.840 --> 03:32:35.980 Yeah. 03:32:36.340 --> 03:32:38.320 I think they were thrilled I recognized them, to be honest with you. 03:32:40.260 --> 03:32:40.360 Yeah. 03:32:40.740 --> 03:32:40.980 All right. 03:32:41.020 --> 03:33:10.740 Well, moving. Hey, actually, sorry. No, did anybody read his book? No, I haven't gotten it yet. You ordered it, though? No, I was waiting to see if there was like an Amazon Kindle kind of thing, and I forgot to look. I don't know if there is. I need to read that. Yeah, I do, too. All right, so moving on, we have more death. Sylvain Sylvain of the New York Dolls also died. He was the guitar player. Yep. Yeah, so nice. They named him twice. Yep. 03:33:11.040 --> 03:33:41.000 Yep. And it just was not like a real great start to the year. And I just to tangent here, baseball has also been taking a hit first Tommy Lasorda, then Don Sutton. Now yesterday, I think it was Hank Aaron. Hey, Larry King today and Larry King today. Not that that's baseball, but. Yeah, but he interviewed probably all those guys. So I'm sure he did. They said, I saw his thing today on CNN on the crawl or something that he did 30 over 30 years ago. 03:33:41.040 --> 03:34:10.640 30,000 interviews in his life. Damn. And the guy started in like the 40s or something crazy, but Jesus. Did anyone ever watch when he used to have it on CNN when he was known, but he wasn't like a superstar yet? He did the, his interviews were on like late at night. Anyone ever see those? I probably did see some of them. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of funny because he had that big burly voice. He'd be like, Judy from South Carolina. What's your question? You'd have to both. Yeah. Hey, Larry. Somebody used to do a really funny segment and somebody told me who it was. 03:34:10.660 --> 03:34:39.360 I'd forgotten was that Opie and Anthony and I used to like hear them on the radio. This is FM radio guys. Yeah. And they used to do this funny thing where they had somebody come in and they would be Larry King and he sounded just like him and it'd be like Larry King's observations. And they were like so true to what Larry King was. And it was always things like this. And I always remember this one. It was just call me crazy. But for my money, Jurassic Park was a very popular movie. They were just sort of like. 03:34:43.580 --> 03:35:10.600 Well, to borrow from the Misfits, so far 2021, death comes ripping. It's been fucking crazy. Oh, yeah. Well, that's Sylvain Sylvain of New York. Not metal, but that band really paved the way for punk. Yeah. So, I mean. It's metal adjacent. It's close enough. And, you know, it's a big band, big name. And it's cancer. Cancer took them, too. So, fuck cancer. I didn't know it was cancer. You know, they also would be a big, 03:35:30.659 --> 03:35:33.460 I'm sorry. 03:35:40.080 --> 03:35:40.640 a drink of water. 03:35:41.600 --> 03:35:42.360 That's not my bad. 03:35:42.480 --> 03:35:42.860 My bad. 03:35:43.040 --> 03:35:44.660 Speaking of fuck cancer, 03:35:44.880 --> 03:35:46.360 there's other things that can go fuck themselves. 03:35:46.920 --> 03:35:49.200 And that would be John Schaefer of iced earth. 03:35:50.140 --> 03:35:55.900 He was arrested recently for his role in the Capitol riot on January 6th. 03:35:57.060 --> 03:35:59.620 I heard just today that he has been, 03:36:02.380 --> 03:36:02.660 what do they, 03:36:02.660 --> 03:36:07.440 what do they call the extradited from Indiana to DC so that they can deal with him here. 03:36:07.660 --> 03:36:36.540 I hope they throw the fucking book at his stupid ass. Well, he fired Bear Mace at a federal agent or officer. So guess what? They're going to throw the book at him. Yeah, that was the big one. And that's where he brought himself even more than he fucked himself. Because he's got six charges against him. Yeah, he's gone away. Was he part of the Oath Keepers bullshit crowd? Yes, he wore an Oath Keepers hat. He wore it. Yeah, I don't know if he was part of it, but he wore it, didn't he? Okay. Yeah. 03:36:37.640 --> 03:37:06.480 It has to be, I think, ex-law enforcement to truly be in it, or ex-military. No, I think that's just who they target. They target, not target, target for recruitment, ex-military, and ex-law enforcement. I don't think it's exclusive. Okay. In the photo that they circulated, he was wearing the hat, and that says it's an oath keeper for life or something. Fuck him, dude. He's always been a tool. He's just two steps left of Ted Nugent, you know, and we don't have to get into politics or anything. 03:37:06.600 --> 03:37:35.520 is that was a fucked up thing that went down. Oh, of course. So far, right? Yeah. Everybody's left of Ted Nugent. I was just going to say, Jay, the funny thing about Ted is Ted would never be dumb enough to do something that stupid. He is that stupid. He just is not going to do that because he's right. I think I'm not defending Ted. Don't get me wrong. I think sometimes as a fellow Michigander, I have the right to say Ted Nugent is one stupid, crazy motherfucker. 03:37:36.600 --> 03:38:06.400 I think a lot of the shit he does and says is just calculated to keep Ted out there. I'm not defending him at all. I'm just saying I think he loves to play the game. It's so crazy some of what he says. It's funny to this day I'll still say the guy's an amazing fucking guitar player. He really is dude. I'd change the channel if he comes on though now anymore. If he's talking. No even if he's playing I won't listen to his music. Even that Poon Tang song. I mean I used to like I mean being from Michigan I used to be a big Ted. 03:38:06.600 --> 03:38:36.540 Nugent fan. That was before I knew he was crazy. Did anyone ever watch the thing he was in? I don't know if it was MTV or VH1. Remember he was in the band? What was it? Damn Yankees. No, I know, but didn't he do something where they, it was like a reality show with him? Oh. Do you guys remember that? I can't remember who was in it. Jason Bonham might have been part of that. Wasn't it a real fantasy camp thing? Yeah, but they got together and they kind of did it as celebrities. 03:38:36.880 --> 03:39:06.360 to put an album or a song together. Like Newstead. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember there was one with Scott Ian and Sebastian Bach. There was maybe I might be thinking of that. And then Sebastian Bach when they call their band like Savage Animals and they came up with Democracy. That's it. You got it. Yeah, I'm looking at it. That's it. All right. Thank you. Well, I don't know if Ted Nugent was in it, though. Yeah, he was. Sebastian Bach, Ted Nugent, Scott Ian, Jason Bonham and Evan Seinfeld. 03:39:06.400 --> 03:39:36.380 whoever the fuck that is that's a guy from biohazard oh yeah you know evan steinfeld his uh wife is um yeah the real famous porn star tara patrick tara patrick yeah and it just says they did a bunch of yeah marcus i remember her i don't think they're together anymore actually what didn't tara patrick tara patrick end up marrying the guy from static x and now they're both dead he was married to a porn girl for sure i think it may have been her but evan 03:39:36.400 --> 03:40:06.380 I thought I was married to her previously. Yeah. Then he started tattooing her. I remember that. And I was like, oh, boy. And then he started doing the same line of work for a little while. Yeah. But biohazard didn't pan out. Not in any way to pull us back, but just to hammer home the point. I do want to make sure I say out loud, fuck John Schaefer. I mean, I've always thought he was kind of a tool and I stand by that. He's kind of, he's always done his right wing shit. And I think he just kind of slowly got radicalized and he went down there like everybody else thinking somehow he had the right to do what 03:40:06.420 --> 03:40:36.340 the fuck he was doing and fuck you John. He would have just stood outside and protested and everything would have been fine. It would have been fine. What I don't quite follow is that after initial unclarity, the band has come out against the riot and said that they do not support anybody that would do these illegal activities, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, so why haven't you quit the band? Are you hoping that maybe you can oust him and get a new guitar player and go by ice dirt while he's in prison? I'm not going to lie. 03:40:36.400 --> 03:41:06.380 That would be really funny if they did that. I can't see how they would be able to. No, I'm joking. Because he's literally, there's a new band every album that comes out. That's why I'm saying that. But also, he owns all that shit, so there's no way. He's not going to anybody use that name. Right. So, how sincere can they be if they announce what he did and they have not quit the band? I agree. They should have quit. What about like an ice earth ad, I'm thinking? Ice earth ink? Yeah. I will say that 03:41:29.860 --> 03:41:33.700 eis da história. 03:41:36.420 --> 03:42:04.660 They are so good live. And Hansi knows how to, I mean, if you're a Blind Guardian fan, you know how he knows how to work the crowd. And Schaefer actually was not in the front. He kind of stood off a little bit. And that always, I always liked that part. But then when I saw, I started, I was like, I may like some albums, but I really don't care about this band live. Yeah. Poor Hansi. And the rest of the band should start a new one and call themselves, and this is very apt, Fired Earth. 03:42:08.539 --> 03:42:36.160 Scorged Earth. Fired from the bin. Or just John Schaefer's an asshole. I'm the same way, John. I only own two vinyl, and then I have quite a few MP3 things. And the only two vinyl I have were the long form. They did two albums, one with Ripper and one with Barlow came back. It was this kind of long story. Yeah, I can't think of it. I know what you're talking about. I think it was this wicked, 03:42:36.420 --> 03:43:06.240 This Way Comes Kind of Stretched Out, but it was good. I liked that. It was like a part two or something. Part two, yeah. Yeah, Barlow's on part two and Ripper's on part one. But in any case, and I'm not going to get rid of them, you know, if that was the... I was so tempted, and I think I told you guys this, that I was like, man, I was so disgusted. I wanted to take all my CDs and vinyl and just go out and burn them in the fire pit. Yeah. Well, he's never going to get another dollar from me, I'll tell you that, but he's probably never going to put out another record so he doesn't fuck him in or does it? Yeah. 03:43:06.420 --> 03:43:35.080 It's like you said, I mean, there's other people in the band. So do you penalize all those people for one person's actions? And to follow up with your Sam Marcus, and I'm not saying he's better than anybody else, but Matt Barlow does actually hold a little bit slightly different situation here. It's his brother-in-law. I'm sure he's a police officer. You know, and so I'm sure that next Thanksgiving is going to be awkward. I'm thinking there will only be one person at the table. 03:43:35.180 --> 03:43:35.600 Yeah. 03:43:38.060 --> 03:44:02.060 Well, you know, but I say again, though, I mean, I don't think we can punish these guys at all. I'm John ran that thing with an iron fist. Barlow. We interviewed Barlow once. He never made a dollar for my stir. So there's no way these new guys, they might be getting some small amount of money, but I'm sure the vast majority goes into John's pocket and there's no point in them trying to hold on to it. There's not that they just need to go start another band. 03:44:02.140 --> 03:44:31.000 I'll be curious. The singer Stu, was he from Into Eternity? Yes. I'd be curious to see. Into Eternity was never obviously Iced Earth's size, but they got on a few big tours. They were good when Stu was in the band. Yeah. I'm just curious. Hey, how are you making money now compared to back then when you were touring as a second band on a big bill? I'm just curious to see how the difference, because I've heard that the bandmates don't make shit in Iced Earth. 03:44:32.160 --> 03:45:00.960 Yeah. So the only other thing I remember about John too, and this, I think this was when I was kind of going through nice earth faces. He actually owns, and at least did own a store in that small town in Indiana called 1776. And it's, uh, this is years ago. And they sold like these little war figurines and things like that. And it was all this whole kind of patriotic thing. And, um, I don't know if it went out of business or not, but he may, maybe did pretty well for himself online or something, but you know what I mean? Like war games and stuff like that. 03:45:01.560 --> 03:45:31.280 It's just really strange because he's a big history buff. Yeah. You know, and then this and you're like, well, I can't get behind that shit. You can't. I mean, how do you come around to rationalizing? I just attacked my own fucking guy. Like, I wonder if him and some of those other people are waking up and going, oh, shit, you know. Oh, yeah, because they're going to be brought up in charges. Yeah, I mean, there was a bunch of people who tried to get Trump to, you know, give him a pardon. And it was. That's not happening. Did you see? 03:45:34.419 --> 03:46:01.400 The Tiger King guy had a limo waiting outside his prison because he thought he was getting a pardon. Yep. I'm actually glad that part happened and nope. Yeah, me too. He was ready to go, man. He was just like, all right, boys. Wait a minute. I'm still here and it's 12 to the 1. For the record, Carol Baskin should be in jail too. Yeah. She's... 03:46:01.440 --> 03:46:31.020 They're equally cuckoo. Well, there's no way she didn't kill her husband. I just can't buy that that happened any other way. Yeah, that dude got, he was a tiger child. I never watched that. I didn't either, but I saw the commercial. It was interesting. It was definitely interesting. If you're not with me, you're against me. And I'm like, oh, that dude's everywhere. It's like the Bernie Mittens thing. It's driving me nuts. Marcus, I would say this, is that it was early in COVID. I watched it. 03:46:31.040 --> 03:46:36.020 It sucked me in. And just every episode when you think like this can't get any more 03:46:36.160 --> 03:46:43.440 batshit crazy, it does. Yeah. And it's all true. That's the beauty of it. Well, that's the perfect take in my 03:46:43.720 --> 03:47:00.420 experience too. It was early COVID. It was like a lockdown thing to do. And I was like, fuck it. And I got to say, I, once I started, I was like, I'm not touching this shit. I started watching. I was like, okay, I can't stop. You can't look away. There was not one episode where my wife and I at the end didn't look at each other and go, what the fuck was that? 03:47:00.960 --> 03:47:30.440 I couldn't even watch it because I can't stand I'm no like I'm not going to be any one of these earth first animal rights PETA people but man I was having a hard time watching the tiger's cage up I was like fuck this guy man I want to just drive out there not watch this fucking keep this guy in the side of the head man you and Carol man you and Carol it makes sense that you jigged the tiger king come on yeah no you're not wrong John I just couldn't watch I was like this is really hard to watch 03:47:31.460 --> 03:47:35.220 I'm totally against exotic fucking animals in people's backyards. 03:47:36.180 --> 03:47:40.220 If you think I'm nuts, then look what's going on in Florida right now with those anacondas. 03:47:40.360 --> 03:47:42.200 They're literally taking over the state right now. 03:47:43.140 --> 03:47:44.080 They're all over the place. 03:47:44.980 --> 03:47:45.940 Yeah, you haven't heard about this? 03:47:46.200 --> 03:47:48.080 No, there's an anaconda Armageddon? 03:47:48.400 --> 03:47:51.280 I thought that was just because Will was on vacation down there. 03:47:51.460 --> 03:47:51.700 No! 03:47:53.360 --> 03:47:54.060 That's Virginia. 03:47:54.400 --> 03:47:55.740 Snakes on a motherfucking plane? 03:47:55.840 --> 03:48:25.420 No, apparently people started bringing in anaconas as exotic pets, and they couldn't handle them because they grow to be really big. 30 feet or some shit. Yeah, and so they were dumping them in the Everglades. These things are worse than rabbits. It's the same thing with big saltwater Nile crocs in the Everglades now because people were like, oh, this looks like a fun pet. This would be awesome. Fuck yeah. Oh, fucking ate my kid. And crocs, I don't think are, they're not native. 03:48:25.820 --> 03:48:55.800 to this area. I think they are in South America, aren't they? No, crocodiles are native to Africa and Australia. But they have them now in parts of south, northern part of South America, I think also. Maybe because they're leaving the Everglades and going south. Saltwater crocs are, they're the, like, especially, I spent a lot of time in Australia, and the saltwater crocs in Australia are 03:48:55.820 --> 03:49:24.560 Massive and territorial and they will eat people. I mean, they are, I mean, they make Nile Crocs look like, like alligators. Do you know what I know about Australian saltwater Crocs? Well, this is what I know about him. Oh, he's pissed off now, but I'm going to go in and get him. Oh, man. Steve Irwin. I still miss that guy. That's great. It was one of my favorite shows of all time. I was so sad when he, when he died so stupidly. 03:49:25.220 --> 03:49:55.180 One in a million shot to the chest. Anyway. Oh, I know who you were talking about. I walked away for a second. I knew what you were talking about before you said that. Yeah. Just horrible. These kids are doing it now. Yeah. They have a show, I think, right? They do, yeah. Yeah, I think they're successful and doing well and liked. I don't know how much you guys watch a show, but I remember seeing him. He's like, his son was in the boat with him. And he looked over and he goes, where's your son? He jumped in. He wrestled. He's wrestling a crock. Currently, that's what Steve 03:49:55.240 --> 03:50:24.840 I did with his dad at the same age. He jumped in and started wrestling a crocodile. Like, okay, I'm wrestling with my fucking zipper on my jacket. And getting tired. And getting pissed and tired. All right, let's bring us back to the news. We have two more items. Much less conversational probably, but the first one is that Memorial, a.k.a. 03:50:25.220 --> 03:50:55.160 Not Bolt Thrower. Are reported to be releasing a new album. Memoriam. Wow. That was a typo. Let me try that again. So Memoriam, not Bolt Thrower, are reported to be releasing a new album in March, which is just around the corner, so I'm surprised we don't have more details on that. But they have been pretty prolific these last few years. Unlike Bolt Thrower, who were, you know, releasing albums occasionally. 03:50:56.899 --> 03:51:24.920 I have a funny relationship with Bolt Thrower. One of these bands I didn't really get into, though I like them, and they have a lot of records, and I just don't want to go buy them at once. So this is a true thing. Every time one of you guys mentions a Bolt Thrower record, I buy it. That record. And John mentioned... Those ones loyal? Yeah, and I bought that when you mentioned it. That was a couple weeks ago or something, maybe a month ago. And I've listened to it a bunch of times. It was fucking great. And so somebody needs to mention a Bolt Thrower record. In battle, there is no law. 03:51:26.159 --> 03:51:27.200 Realms of Chaos. 03:51:27.720 --> 03:51:28.020 No, stop. 03:51:28.390 --> 03:51:29.120 No, they're all good. 03:51:29.160 --> 03:51:30.040 War Master. 03:51:31.779 --> 03:51:33.380 The Fourth Crusade. 03:51:35.220 --> 03:51:35.940 For victory. 03:51:37.940 --> 03:51:39.000 I'm doing the first one, George. 03:51:39.100 --> 03:51:39.500 That's all there is. 03:51:40.380 --> 03:51:40.740 Oh, they're good. 03:51:41.110 --> 03:51:42.340 I like the last Memoriam. 03:51:42.610 --> 03:51:43.240 I thought that was good. 03:51:43.480 --> 03:51:44.500 Yeah, they've been good. 03:51:45.980 --> 03:51:47.840 You weren't so big on the first two, though, were you, George? 03:51:48.240 --> 03:51:52.180 No, I think I liked the first one the most, maybe. 03:51:52.860 --> 03:51:53.080 Okay. 03:51:53.380 --> 03:51:53.500 Really? 03:51:53.980 --> 03:51:54.400 I don't know. 03:51:54.440 --> 03:52:23.100 Maybe I'm contradicting myself. No, no, you were pretty vocal. Because I was excited. I was like, you know, it's not Boltthrower, but what the hell? And then they were at Avakan. Well, then it came out and you were like, hey, it's Boltthrower. I'm shocked. I thought they've gotten better every record, especially in production, too, which is a big thing for you, Charlie. Yeah, I remember the third album was like, I think we all said it like three times a charm, like the third Morium record, I forget the name of it, but it was much better. 03:52:24.420 --> 03:52:53.920 than the first two. I don't think they're quite there yet, though. I like it. I don't think they're quite there with their sound. So I am looking forward to the new one. Yeah, it's one of those things like you keep wanting them to be bolt thrower, but they're not going to be bolt thrower, but they kind of get a little closer to bolt thrower every record. It's just Carl Willits, right? From bolt thrower on there? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So our last news item, Black Sabbath is releasing deluxe deluxe versions. 03:52:54.440 --> 03:53:23.020 of Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. And I know when we were talking about it over the messenger feed that John was kind of like, don't we already have these songs? Expanded Editions ones I have already. Yeah, see, I got them right here. Yeah, but I will say this. Are they remastered as well, John? That I don't know, but these came out in 2000. 03:53:24.500 --> 03:53:24.920 Yeah. 03:53:25.660 --> 03:53:27.280 Well, they, uh, the, um, 03:53:27.590 --> 03:53:30.000 the humanizer came out in 2019, that one. 03:53:30.780 --> 03:53:33.760 So these are fairly new or 2010. 03:53:34.220 --> 03:53:35.500 So I would assume the remaster. 03:53:35.580 --> 03:53:36.920 I'll have to look it up on discogs. 03:53:37.230 --> 03:53:37.720 Well, it's funny. 03:53:37.980 --> 03:53:40.900 They've done so much revisiting of the Aussie years. 03:53:41.120 --> 03:53:45.540 And I do think they have not been as focused on the deal years granted. 03:53:45.720 --> 03:53:48.940 It's relatively short time, short period of time. 03:53:49.190 --> 03:53:52.580 And I have always thought that a remaster of, um, 03:53:53.140 --> 03:54:22.760 Mob Rules is well overdue. And I love that record. I listened to it a million times, but it's just got one little layer of mud on top of it that it really shouldn't have. And I've just really, if somebody could just sharpen that thing up just a little bit. Now they included a different version of the song, The Mob Rules, didn't they, on this one? That wasn't on this last expanded, like a different remix of it or something, I think? I looked at the list, and I don't recall everything in there. I do think there's a few studio outtakes and then basically live stuff. 03:54:23.160 --> 03:54:53.080 Yeah, which is what's on the other ones here. It's all live stuff. So if it's all different live shows, then, you know, I've only got like eight versions of each one of these albums. Well, I'm super excited about these releases. Yeah, me too. Two favorite Sabbath albums. Yeah. Because I love fucking Dio in there. I've wanted these albums since I started collecting vinyl, but I never pulled the trigger because they're just really expensive on Discogs. I figured they would re-release eventually. So now that they're coming out, I'm just really happy. 03:54:53.140 --> 03:55:22.980 that I'm going to get to spin them on vinyl. You know, I have a hanging in the, the middle heads podcast bar. I have a copy of mob rules signed by everybody on the album. And Markisan, but when it came out, I've got one of those. Yeah. Yeah. I've got one of those too. My mob rules, my mob rules, I found in a pawn shop or some bullshit. Here's my mob rules. That still has the water that was on the album and it wilted my album. So it's all rippled and everything. And every time I see it, 03:55:23.140 --> 03:55:26.000 I'm like I'm not getting rid of that that's actually I bought it when it came out 03:55:27.480 --> 03:55:33.480 that's fantastic and they're flimsy as fuck too yeah that yeah vinyl went through a really shitty period 03:55:33.600 --> 03:55:53.120 there from about 70 maybe 8 through like 80 whatever yeah where they were just fucking make saving money or something dude mine are really flimsy too John so this that's the other thing is I assume these will be 180 gram I can't imagine they won't I don't mention 180 gram actually so I don't know that you mention it I think you're right I don't think they did 03:55:53.140 --> 03:56:22.180 So if they don't mention it, usually they don't do it. It'll still just be a much heartier stock than these original releases. I'm also excited. Two of my favorite records of all time. Are they gatefolds, by the way, the vinyl? They are. I believe they are. I looked at the packaging, what they shared, and it was impressive. Impressive packaging, just like Will. Do you want to know the impressive packaging for My Mob Rules original vinyl is? It is a plastic, 03:56:23.759 --> 03:56:30.920 cover that it's see-through and it's not even a square it's the shape of a u it is unbelievably pathetic 03:56:32.500 --> 03:56:37.040 yeah i'm gonna check mine since i'm here it's just horrible i can't even get the album back in because 03:56:37.080 --> 03:56:45.260 the plastic gets stuck every time yeah i hate that was a major like reason why i would not listen to vinyl in the 80s 03:56:45.520 --> 03:56:49.920 was because i didn't want to take it out of that damn plastic sleeve that i couldn't get it back into 03:56:49.920 --> 03:57:18.240 Yeah, total cost saving across the board by the labels. Like static cling or some shit. Like the paper. I wish I had that. Yeah, the paper ones, at least you could get them in there. But it's nicely yellowed, though. Yeah. I replace all mine every time. So yeah, I just bought a whole bunch of new ones that are supposedly polylined. I get the polylined black. What's the mobile fidelity? Do you know that? Label? The priest stuff is on it. 03:57:20.499 --> 03:57:49.180 I bought stuff from their site. Oh, really? They sell inserts and everything. Or you can get it on Amazon, too. I mean. Yeah, that's right. I get it from Amazon. But I mean, it's a, you know, it's a store that sells on Amazon. I get it from, I can't remember what it was. I wish, I wish they would give these and they are, they are at least doing this much, but I wish they would give them the sort of like, like the, I wish a lot of people would do this, but like the, you know, the Metallica sets, George. Oh, yeah. 03:57:49.819 --> 03:58:15.780 I wish they would do that for Number of the Beast, Heaven and Hell. There's so many good records I would love to have. Metallica really got it right with those. Those are really cool packages. You know, it's funny. I ordered the Abagor vinyl. I've been off the vinyl horse for a couple of years now. Welcome back, George. Well, it's two for you this year, isn't it? 03:58:19.300 --> 03:58:49.260 and I haven't heard anything about it shipping so I guess I'm in the same boat as the rest of you in terms of vinyl. I'm like that's never fucking coming. I mean it's coming from Europe so it'll probably never come. I've always thought Bill Ward looked really funny on the back of this album. Oh yeah. It's horrible. Everybody looks funny on there. No that's true but he looks like. That's like the cheap version of long live rock and roll. That's exactly right. They might have just nicked Ronnie from that and then just drew 03:58:49.300 --> 03:59:19.100 the rest of the guys. Speaking of vinyl, did any of you guys join the Gimme Radio Club? No. Yeah, I got the second one. I'm regretting it. I'm sorry. Yeah, I've only gotten two so far. And I did it because I wanted those ones loyal from Bullthrower because it hadn't been reissued for a couple years. So I wanted to get that. Cool. Yeah, I think I got the last one that came out for Record Store Day. They reissued it in 180 grand. 03:59:19.300 --> 03:59:48.900 Vinyl. Which one was that? Oh, those ones? Yeah, you told me that before. Yeah. So that's why I didn't get the Gimme Metal, and that's why I didn't get Chemist, because I have like four versions of that album. Yeah, I have two, and I showed it to Jen. I was like, what do I do? And she's like, well, the new one's kind of cool. I'm like, hey, she thinks it's cool. I should probably keep it. Yeah. It's literally the only thing. She actually liked it. I was like, I'll keep it. I got a couple doubles. I do that, too. Yeah, I accidentally actually have a bolt thrower double. 03:59:48.980 --> 04:00:18.960 I think it's Realms of Chaos maybe. I just ordered another Chemist album too because they put up signed copies that they had left. Oh cool that's nice. They did Absolution was it's signed and it was the tour exclusive one I think which I already have so I'll have two of those but I'll have one signed and then I have two or three other versions of it as well. So I don't know I give them away a lot of times but I haven't done that with Chemist. I think I probably have 04:00:18.980 --> 04:00:48.480 the most doubles for that band. You know, it's funny. I have two copies of Monotheist because it was re-released a while back. George and I both were like, okay, I'll get the re-release too. Fuck it. And then I was like, and then I think I even said to Will, I was like, Will, I'm going to send this other copy to you. And I literally was like, put it in a box. And I was like, no, I can't get rid of it. I have two copies. I left that record so much. I couldn't make myself give one away. Especially when one of them costs a damn much. That's right. I spent a lot on the original one. 04:00:48.500 --> 04:01:18.460 I just purposely bought a double of death spiritual healing because what I wanted was the vinyl bobblehead which you can see right there and I what's weird about that vinyl that the bobblehead is it's like I think it's like maybe metal it's really really sorry go ahead or it's or it's really hardy like plastic I mean this thing is 04:01:20.359 --> 04:01:20.720 Yeah. 04:01:20.970 --> 04:01:21.060 Yeah. 04:01:21.720 --> 04:01:24.080 Will, you should put some mittens on that guy's hand. 04:01:28.200 --> 04:01:29.700 Bernie means Stark again. 04:01:31.659 --> 04:01:35.040 I spent way too much money on eBay because I just won the bobblehead. 04:01:35.070 --> 04:01:36.020 Like I just won because I won. 04:01:36.580 --> 04:01:37.820 I have the Scream Bloody Gore. 04:01:37.830 --> 04:01:38.880 I have the leprosy one. 04:01:39.700 --> 04:01:41.400 And I think you can see the leprosy one. 04:01:42.740 --> 04:01:42.820 Yeah. 04:01:42.970 --> 04:01:43.100 Yeah. 04:01:43.170 --> 04:01:44.580 But if you got to have it, you got to have it too. 04:01:45.180 --> 04:01:47.020 The other ones at work. 04:01:47.080 --> 04:01:50.160 But man, somebody, some, 04:01:50.590 --> 04:01:52.980 a couple of people were brilliant on buying them. 04:01:53.070 --> 04:01:53.860 And it's on me, baby. 04:01:53.970 --> 04:01:56.800 Cause I'm embarrassed to say how much money I spent, 04:01:57.460 --> 04:02:00.220 but it came with the vinyl, which I already had, but yeah. 04:02:01.739 --> 04:02:03.760 Is that Funko pop Slayer next door? 04:02:04.640 --> 04:02:08.980 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a bunch of, I got, and the one, 04:02:09.140 --> 04:02:10.560 all the way on the left is Kirk Hammett. 04:02:10.560 --> 04:02:13.240 And then you have Eddie from a fire maiden. 04:02:13.920 --> 04:02:16.040 Welcome to metal heads podcast. Toy time. 04:02:16.220 --> 04:02:45.980 Oh, no, these are action figures. Come on. That's right. I had shared this one, but I wanted to show you that this, this actually came like this. It's packaged and it's all sealed in there. So this is like, this is the way it comes, you know, you know, Jay's Funko original Black Sabbath album. Yeah. Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath album cover. By the way, speaking of action figures, Markisan, you should be happy with the latest super seven announcement. Conan the barbarian. Did you see it? Yeah. I don't, I don't like those. 04:02:46.220 --> 04:03:16.200 as much. They kind of look like He-Man figures, but they are cool. There's like the third wave, though, of those. Yeah, I know. But this one's got a super big sword. There's actually another company. He's got the war paint on it. He's got the war paint on it and everything. Good. I love that version. I'm tempted. I'm tempted to do it. But I got the, actually bought the Mezco one. I don't know if you guys have ever seen those, but they're like hyper realistic versions. And it's the Frank Frazetta version of Conan. And so I just feel like I don't need the super 04:03:16.220 --> 04:03:46.200 7 ones because I got that one for the price of what two of those Conan ones that Super 7 would cost. You know, speaking of Super 7, did anybody else outside of me order that deluxe King Diamond? Thought about it. I never fucking got it. I'm sure it was supposed to be here by now. Super 7 ships very quickly. So you usually get it in less than a week. Yeah, well, some things don't ship very quickly as Markisan can attest to. I just 04:03:46.260 --> 04:04:15.960 got his Christmas card like the day after inauguration. Oh my God. Can I send it out like December 12th or something? Yeah, December 12th. The King Diamond that was, to be fair, was a pre-order. And so I'm wondering if there's like, and that's why I was asking because I didn't know if it got stuck up. I mean, I don't really even, whatever. I have so much King Diamond shit, but yeah, I'll reach out to him. No, I bought one on eBay and sent it to you. But this was the deluxe that, you remember they had this like deluxe box that came out. 04:04:16.240 --> 04:04:35.340 or was about to come out. It's like this, it's bigger and it's got all these extra pieces and whatever the fuck. I shared it a while back. That's how long ago it was. I'm sure you forgot. You're listening to the, ah, ah, seriously. Couldn't you do that somewhere else? Sorry, dude. All right, let's do new releases. 04:04:46.240 --> 04:05:16.200 We have Asphix, or as I like to call it, and Will has pointed out, Asphix. Fair enough. Fix that ass. Their new album, Necrosaurus. It's their 10th album. They're a death metal band from the Netherlands. And I gave this a listen. I've only been through it once because it just came out, but I dig it. Anybody else like it? Yeah, I have no idea what a Necrosaurus is, but I picture it being a stomping prehistoric 04:05:16.260 --> 04:05:46.200 Yeah, I'm like, that's totally like something that you should be writing about, you know, right? Yeah, the album's good, man. I was looking forward to this and I think it's just as good as I'd hoped it'd be. Yeah. Yeah, I was impressed with what I heard. I haven't heard it yet. All right. Next one will be quick because I'm sure I'm the only one that listened to it. That would be Bloody Hammers and their sixth album, Songs of Unspeakable Terror. They're sort of a horror doom band from 04:05:46.800 --> 04:05:50.740 I was just talking about them the other day saying how they're kind of like 04:05:51.490 --> 04:05:58.360 the misfits of doom metal you know they all their stuff is very like same similar old horror 04:05:58.560 --> 04:06:04.700 movie themes as the misfits and even you know it's doom but it's kind of punky doom you know it's very 04:06:05.560 --> 04:06:09.900 they have a lot of earworms although not as many on this album as yet I only listened to this one 04:06:10.080 --> 04:06:14.020 once as well and I was like yeah you know it's good I think maybe I like the last one a little better 04:06:14.020 --> 04:06:43.960 So far, but we'll see. I listened to the first song. I didn't hear any doom on it. It sounded like horror pop to me. So I don't know if the doom comes in later or what, but I haven't listened to the rest of it. Wait, were you listening to Bloody Hammers or Ghost? I don't know. Good question, John. Horror doom. It's, you know, yeah. First song is pop, dude. Yeah, it's pop. I was about to say, I listened to it. That first song is very pop. There's no doom in it. Well, it's retro, retro, retro, dude. I know, but it's like. The other song, 04:07:10.920 --> 04:07:14.000 I would call to mind here the first two 04:07:14.020 --> 04:07:18.900 which really aren't doomy but they're a doom band i mean so and i think it's more like that it's 04:07:18.910 --> 04:07:25.000 like so retro in its way that it's um yeah i'm with your agenda this one i'm backing you up on this 04:07:25.120 --> 04:07:31.000 george thank you i was about to start self-flagellating myself and then penance for even mentioning it 04:07:31.510 --> 04:07:37.520 what about proto doom then how about yeah i would call it proto doom no i'm just asking i mean yeah i think 04:07:37.640 --> 04:07:42.180 you're right more of that okay that's yeah that's named for it's great it's proto pop 04:07:43.220 --> 04:08:11.700 Whatever. Well, listen, I only listen to one song, so that's what I'm saying. The second song wasn't much better. The first song was way more popular. The second song is not that different. But I love that Marcus and I was like, I'm out of here. It's their black album. Hey, I'm impressed y'all listen to it at all. So, well, you know what I'm saying, right? That first track. Yeah, yeah, sure. Unless it's like that weird, like, oh, we're just going to do an interlude before we go into the music, but. So you got to start with track two. I want that one to invite me and show me everything you got. 04:08:12.200 --> 04:08:42.160 So that I want to listen to more and I didn't feel like I got that. I really wish I could make an album and my track two would be the intro. So George would just skip my first track and go right to the intro. And I would call it track two. Yeah. Or if you were a blur, song two. Yeah, but Matt's calling this album Poom. Poom. I agree. It's Pop Doom. Poom. All right. Fair enough. Let's move on then. Next one up is one that I just 04:08:42.200 --> 04:09:12.160 came across on Bandcamp and I thought it was kind of cool so I put it on here. Celestial Swarm, Gateway to the Necroverse. It's their first album of Black and Death. They're listed as international but one of the guys is apparently from Baltimore which is another reason I included it. It was kind of cool. Did anybody else listen to it? Yeah, I listened to it. I listened to all these albums. Yeah, they described their sound as slamming black metal from outer space which I think is pretty accurate but I'd also add the term filthy to it because 04:09:12.200 --> 04:09:40.960 listening to this album is like, it's kind of like putting your ear on a meteorite that landed in a sewage canal. So I thought it was, it was kind of unique in a death way. You know, it's like, it didn't sound like everything else. Yeah. And I like space and I like this record. Yeah. All right. Will, you were going to say something? And I like space and I like this record. I was going to say it, it sounded more like you put your ear on a sewage canal. 04:09:41.640 --> 04:10:05.120 That smelled like a meteorite. That's what I was going to say. You know what? I got to back well up on this one. That's going to be my theme for the rest of the episode. I keep thinking of the Ninja Turtles. I like how Jay just throws his random support behind people. Yeah, I think that's my new thing. I'm the Lindsey Graham of this show now. 04:10:11.640 --> 04:10:41.460 you think of the next one, which is Dread Sovereign and their third album of Irish doom. At least I think it's doom. I'm not sure what doom is anymore called alchemical warfare. This is doom. Okay. This is doom. Just wanted to be sure. You know, it's funny when I heard this, I thought like, Oh, it's kind of like traditional metal, a little bit of traditional doom. And it sounds like the guy either from, from a man of war or primordial. 04:10:41.640 --> 04:11:09.860 singing. It's really weird. I looked it up and I'm like, oh, it is the guy from Primordial. Yeah. Yeah. This is the one that I didn't get past the first track because I don't like his clean vocals. Well, I think maybe they're just not very melodic. It's like they're clean, but they don't do anything. Doesn't really have. He hasn't really done harsh vocals in a long time. I know. I know. Yeah. That's that's. Yeah. I mean, 04:11:11.620 --> 04:11:41.420 I did listen to my job has been pretty brutal since the year started. So I haven't had much time to really dig into stuff. So I've only listened to a couple. I thought this was okay. I've always tried to get behind this band and I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm just not into Doom as much anymore. Have you always tried to get behind it because of... Because of him. Yeah, because of him. Yeah. No, I'll buy that. I'll buy that. And it's not a bad album at all. I think there's some really good songs on it. 04:11:42.159 --> 04:12:11.600 I just didn't have the chance to give it any attention just because I'm so busy with work. I can't if I'm listening that I'm not concentrating what I need to get done and a shit storm. I don't know who I told me. Yeah, I told you a massive shit storm came down our way for my team. So it's the tiger the tiger rescue kit. I wish it was that trust me. We had a we're dealing with something that's pretty tough right now. So I can't concentrate on anything. I'm half listening to albums and I'm getting annoyed at myself for not 04:12:11.640 --> 04:12:15.840 paying attention so i have to stick to work so but i did listen to this and i thought it was okay 04:12:16.160 --> 04:12:20.200 you know i know some of our listeners uh commented that they like this album a lot 04:12:20.940 --> 04:12:26.600 i totally agree with you though john because i'm a big primordial fan and this album is okay to me and 04:12:26.660 --> 04:12:31.780 i've listened to it a few times you know it's not that it's it's not bad by any means it's just kind of 04:12:31.900 --> 04:12:38.260 like average to me it's not like primordial yeah and i think it makes i think we and maybe we all 04:12:38.280 --> 04:13:07.640 kind of thinking it's time for a new primordial record. I mean, we are two years out now, I think, from the last one, which I really liked the last one. So that might be part of it. Marcus, do you feel this way that there are like about three, maybe four songs that are really good on this album that you can get behind, you can like them, and then the rest you're like, eh. Yeah, no, I totally. Give or take, you know. Yeah, as a whole, the album, it just doesn't blow you away, but there's definitely some standout tracks. Yeah, it's certainly not bad. 04:13:07.680 --> 04:13:37.640 I listen to a few of them. I find that this is something that I don't know if I would buy it, but it would be something fun just to listen to in the background. Yeah. All right. Moving on. Gatecreeper and their unexpected EP and unexpected reality. So these guys pulled like a Taylor Swift and were like, boom, here's here's an EP. Yeah. And everybody was like, I really want someone else to start editing this podcast. 04:13:40.840 --> 04:13:42.440 I got up and I was like, 04:13:42.720 --> 04:13:43.820 gate creeper released an album. 04:13:44.100 --> 04:13:44.820 When did this come out? 04:13:44.860 --> 04:13:45.000 Well, 04:13:45.180 --> 04:13:45.280 you know, 04:13:45.960 --> 04:13:46.560 now that it's out, 04:13:46.560 --> 04:13:47.420 I can talk about this, 04:13:47.600 --> 04:13:47.740 but, 04:13:48.420 --> 04:13:48.620 um, 04:13:49.180 --> 04:13:51.500 I don't know if any of you got the issue, 04:13:51.800 --> 04:13:56.120 latest issue of decibel before the EP came out and the back cover of 04:13:56.360 --> 04:13:58.300 decibel has the cover and it says gate creeper. 04:13:58.660 --> 04:13:59.140 And I was like, 04:13:59.540 --> 04:14:00.240 the fuck is this? 04:14:01.420 --> 04:14:02.520 So I go to the source. 04:14:02.680 --> 04:14:03.040 I'm like, 04:14:03.500 --> 04:14:04.340 who books the ads? 04:14:04.500 --> 04:14:05.060 James books, 04:14:05.120 --> 04:14:05.420 the ads, 04:14:05.660 --> 04:14:05.860 James, 04:14:06.620 --> 04:14:07.240 the fuck is this? 04:14:07.280 --> 04:14:36.520 fucking gate creeper shit. I'm doing my Bill Burr here. I was going to say, what are you from Boston? And I'm like, James, what's with the gate creeper? You know, is this an album? Is this an EP? What is this? Is this live? Is this bullshit? What is it? And he was like. Now you just sound like you're from Eastern Europe. I don't know. Slowly moving around. Hey, Will, we're going to have to put him in a sweatsuit though. 04:14:38.219 --> 04:15:06.260 Boston trash accent. Accents are not my forte. But James, being the diehard, good at his job, was like, I can't tell you. Who is this that just sent me a message? He was like, you know, the guy that booked the ad said I couldn't say anything, so I'm not going to say anything. And I was like, yeah, it's fair. I was just wondering. 04:15:07.300 --> 04:15:37.240 was top secret or I just didn't know about it. And then like a day two later at the max is when it dropped. And I was like, oh, OK. I was hoping for a whole album. But in terms of EPs, it's still kind of cool. You know, it's like, what was it, like seven tracks and like the first six are like six minutes total. And then the last one is like, it's like six tracks of grindcore. And then the seventh track is like an 11 minute doom song. 04:15:37.280 --> 04:16:06.960 And I'm not the biggest Great Creeper fan, but I do like that last song, the Doomier song. It's pretty cool. I like it. That's funny because I expected you to go the other way because you felt that the last one was not death enough. And I was like, these grind songs are like a lot heavier than what was on the last album. Actually, this is probably actually my favorite Gate Creeper release. Wow. But I do like, I don't know, just not. I'll give them this. They sound good, though. Yeah. They play. 04:16:07.300 --> 04:16:37.180 They sound big, massive, powerful. They don't sound, they sound tight. But the only thing I'll say about this album is I can't think of how many albums I have where I have one song's longer than this whole album. You know, I was just like 17 minutes, like shit, man, I'm still, I'm listening to the Will's Dissolve Echoes. That's like twice as long as it's one song. Yeah. Well, it's an EP, so. Oh, I know. I just, I can't, I have a hard time getting behind this, the grind core formula. 04:16:37.280 --> 04:16:38.300 of short songs. 04:16:39.300 --> 04:16:40.960 But I thought these songs were pretty good, though. 04:16:41.360 --> 04:16:46.580 You know, the first six tracks, though, being like a minute or less each, approximately, 04:16:47.880 --> 04:16:53.860 they kind of ran together as if it was like one long song and then another long song. 04:16:54.120 --> 04:16:55.360 That's what I liked about it, yeah. 04:16:55.630 --> 04:16:59.940 So it made it at least I was engaged the whole time and not stopping for after 43 seconds. 04:17:00.260 --> 04:17:03.500 Yeah, there was a nice flow to it where just one went right into the next. 04:17:03.710 --> 04:17:03.820 Yeah. 04:17:04.460 --> 04:17:04.940 It's solid. 04:17:05.000 --> 04:17:34.560 I love the last Gate Cooper album a lot. This was a cool experiment. You know, I'm not really a huge grind fan either. But the songs did go well together on that first side. And I love the B-side track, the Doom. The band expressly said that this is more of a detour. They don't want people to think of it as an album. It's just something they kind of like a side project. I heard that this was actually something that was like in the works for a while and they just. 04:17:35.000 --> 04:17:36.620 now got around to doing it. 04:17:37.360 --> 04:17:39.700 But I'm going to, I'm going to, I think Will's right. 04:17:39.700 --> 04:17:41.340 I think this is what they did with their lockdown. 04:17:41.660 --> 04:17:42.340 You know, they were like, okay. 04:17:42.580 --> 04:17:44.300 And it may be that George, they were just like, Hey, 04:17:44.400 --> 04:17:46.680 let's do the thing we've been talking about. Cause yeah. Yeah. 04:17:46.940 --> 04:17:48.320 And, and, and so if nothing else, 04:17:48.540 --> 04:17:52.380 this is a good example of some of what some of the benefit we did reap from 04:17:52.460 --> 04:17:55.020 the lockdown, love it or not, you know, whatever, 04:17:55.120 --> 04:17:56.560 wherever you land on this particular one, 04:17:56.720 --> 04:18:00.240 but I'll be curious to see how many other ones come down the pike like this, 04:18:00.340 --> 04:18:02.020 which we kind of talked about before. Yeah. 04:18:02.640 --> 04:18:30.720 Well, it's also interesting, too, because they said, oh, don't think of this as an album. What does that mean that they've been working on an album as well? And that might drop as well. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. So two things. I love this because it does seem fitting for the time we're in right now with COVID. And I think I relate to this a lot because to me, those first seven tracks, they sound bitchy. I mean, starved, sick of being sober, imposter syndrome, amputation, depraved, not deprived. That's bitchiness. 04:18:30.820 --> 04:19:00.780 For the first hour of this podcast, Matt, had all those emotions. Exactly. Exactly. Second thing I'll say. Decibel Metal and Beer Fest 2021. Metalhead podcast, sweatsuits. All six of us. Hoods, knot hoods, sleeves, sleeveless. Think about it. Sweatsuits or snuggies. Or tracksuits. How about a sweatsuit-snuggie combination? I was just going to say, maybe we do sweatsuits until like 7, 8 o'clock, have a few beers, and then we transition to snuggies. 04:19:00.820 --> 04:19:29.380 You know, just some sort of like podcast robe that like, it's like an all day thing. We're going to look like this green bloody gore group sitting in the background all hammered, sitting on those back steps. You just need somebody in a white suit. Shane, where are you going to throw your support behind? Nice one. Yeah, I mean, I gotta go with Matt, you know, I think he's really thinking his shit through here. You know, I would ask, I would add one gate creeper comment, which is I really, 04:19:30.820 --> 04:20:00.100 This has a kick-ass cover on it, doesn't it? That's really kick-ass artwork, dude. It kind of calls a mix between the Obituary record, the Last High on Fire record, and something else that I can't call to mind right now, but I really like that artwork. Did Kurt Blue, has he produced their other stuff? Because I noticed he produced this one. I don't know. Which is one of the reasons it probably sounds so fucking heavy. Yeah. Because John's not wrong about that. It sounds huge. I'll say one last thing about it myself. 04:20:00.840 --> 04:20:30.340 I find it interesting that Spirit Adrift breaking up, you know, the guys that were in Gate Creeper just going and staying with Gate Creeper and then the two guys staying just with Spirit Adrift. I think it's been better for both bands personally. Fair enough. Even though they only played together, what, one album, I think? Still, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of interesting how that happened. Yeah, I got to kind of wait and see what they do with the next full length, I think, John, but I do really like this. It sounds awesome and it's neat that they did something a little bit different, so. Cool. 04:20:30.840 --> 04:20:58.500 Next up, we have Fractal Generator and their second album, Macrocosmos. They're on a Terrio band, and I would say they're kind of tech death. I mean, not super techie, but along those lines. Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen a lot of people picking this up on Bandcamp. I gave it a listen, and I thought it was all right. You know, I think I like it. It's pretty good. Yeah. I thought it was really good. Trying to figure out the barcodes for the members. 04:20:58.700 --> 04:21:28.120 That took way too much of my time. I mean, it's sci-fi death that's technical, but it's accessible tech death, you know? Space. Right. I like the song running. I like space. The concept behind the album is cool, too. It's the story of these future human star travelers who discover that the universe is really a simulation. The Matrix? I always like those kind of concepts, you know? So, yeah, it's cool. I think it's their best album. 04:21:28.220 --> 04:21:58.160 I've liked their other ones, but I really dig this one. Cool. Next up is the new Tribulation album, Where the Gloom Becomes Sound. This is their fifth album. They're a Swedish, sort of gothic, sort of death band. You know, I really... They're a little black and roll, a little bit too. Yeah, I really wanted to like it. I liked some of their earlier stuff, and I know Jay likes them, or has in the past. So every time something comes out, I'm like, I really want to like this. 04:21:58.220 --> 04:22:28.160 And I was feeling in the right headspace for goth death when this came out because it was like post lists opened other things and I just didn't get into it. Couldn't go there. Well, I happy to take up the mantle. I like the last one a lot. Down below was it called or something below. And I liked it. I think it blows. Down she blows. Anyway, I liked it. I like I still listen. 04:22:30.299 --> 04:22:58.200 I think controversially in this podcast I think it got a 9 or a 10 in decibel. Got a 10 actually in the last one. The last album or this one? The last one. I don't know what this one got. 8 or 9. 8 I think it got an 8 I think. I listened to a few of the songs and I'm shocked that this isn't even metal anymore. It is so right. It's very pop. I don't know. It's garbage. If you're going to go that direction you got to have some hooks and I just don't feel 04:22:58.220 --> 04:22:58.740 like there's any hooks. 04:22:58.780 --> 04:23:00.480 No, this is like... 04:23:00.500 --> 04:23:01.800 You know, you need earworms. 04:23:01.820 --> 04:23:06.040 If you're going to go this melodic, you got to have earworms, and there's no earworms. 04:23:06.440 --> 04:23:07.800 Is it gothic anymore? 04:23:08.540 --> 04:23:09.780 Yeah, it's definitely gothic. 04:23:10.560 --> 04:23:14.520 They're not a favorite band for me, but I feel like they do put out fun, quality records. 04:23:14.980 --> 04:23:16.500 It's got really cool guitar work. 04:23:16.620 --> 04:23:17.560 The solos are great. 04:23:17.720 --> 04:23:19.280 It's got a sexy goth vibe. 04:23:19.840 --> 04:23:22.140 It's everything you expect from the band. 04:23:22.220 --> 04:23:25.920 All things that I like, it just doesn't quite get there. 04:23:25.980 --> 04:23:55.420 They're corpse pain because there's nothing corpse pain about this. It's better than Bloody Hammers, though. At least Bloody Hammers has earworms. As I was going through the list of things to listen to, it was like, Bloody Hammers, oh, this is poppy crap. And then, you know, get down to Tribulation, like, this is poppy crap. You finished where you started. Almost. I don't know if I can agree with Will on anything anymore because of his comments on Enslaved. 04:23:56.000 --> 04:23:57.780 Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. 04:23:58.060 --> 04:23:58.600 Poppy crap. 04:23:59.540 --> 04:23:59.940 What? 04:24:00.740 --> 04:24:02.520 They're like a Metallica black album. 04:24:02.780 --> 04:24:05.660 Well, you're agreeing to disagree, so I guess you did agree with them on something. 04:24:07.340 --> 04:24:09.080 You know, Will, I'm going to back you up on that. 04:24:10.100 --> 04:24:10.600 Thank you, Jack. 04:24:12.439 --> 04:24:13.840 No, I like them. 04:24:13.960 --> 04:24:23.820 I think they also have this weird, slightly proggy 70s meandering sections of music 04:24:23.820 --> 04:24:52.940 that are just like almost like 70s priests in a way. I don't know how to explain it except to say that I am going to reserve judgment on I haven't heard this one enough to say truly what I think of it yet because they're usually their stuff's kind of grower stuff too. And I you know George actually love I know you loved Children of the Night actually. Yeah. And it's just their third album right? Yeah. It was the one that was down below. Yeah I like that one a lot too. Yeah. So I'm going to reserve judgment. This this could be a one that will make it on my list this year. I certainly like the last one. 04:24:53.820 --> 04:25:23.800 I'm not ready to say that. I kind of agree with you both. I think it's a really well done album, but it doesn't have the hooks to keep me coming back, like George said. I agree with that. Wow. Thank you. I'll say I struggle with this band at first because my only exposure to them was live. And they were like, I literally, I'm pretty sure I saw this band on a Cannibal Corpse tour. No, you saw them with Behemoth. Behemoth, thank you. It just like, I was so in the mood for Behemoth and Death. And it was like, I don't like these guys felt like 04:25:23.820 --> 04:25:52.480 They felt like Led Zeppelin playing like really tuned down. Now I get it. Tribulation was the children singing on the behemoth album. It all makes sense now. Well, you know, I get what they're trying to do. They're sort of trying to take death metal and commercialize it a little bit, make it more accessible. And I get it. I just don't think they quite succeed. I think it's more like I had said this to it, especially with Down Below. 04:25:52.640 --> 04:26:22.600 I think that if you took all of the people from the stars from the universal monster movies and put them in a rock band this is what it would sound like and I mean literally those versions that Frankenstein that would be way way heavier no I don't think it would Godzilla alone the riffs well Godzilla does go go Godzilla no I'm talking Dracula the mummy Frankenstein the 30s and 40s stuff I'm telling you this is if I can sum this up look at the cover 04:26:22.620 --> 04:26:23.880 a decibel because they're on the cover. 04:26:24.740 --> 04:26:30.380 And it's like they have corpse paint on, but it's like it's been washed off half of it washed off. 04:26:30.480 --> 04:26:33.340 It's like they kind of want to have the corpse paint to look cool. 04:26:33.600 --> 04:26:35.180 That's like a Kardashian corpse paint. 04:26:35.620 --> 04:26:35.760 Yeah. 04:26:35.950 --> 04:26:37.900 Like it's like what's the point of your corpse paint? 04:26:38.070 --> 04:26:41.200 Because there's nothing like, I don't know. 04:26:41.400 --> 04:26:46.360 I just I am so like I don't understand why they got a 10 the last time. 04:26:46.630 --> 04:26:52.580 I think this whatever songs were released on iTunes already, you know, before you could preorder 04:26:52.580 --> 04:27:21.160 I listen to them all. I'm like, I don't understand why this is eating. We have the promo. What? Well, yeah. So wait, Will, you're saying you don't like this album? It's a grower, apparently. Well, no, I'd like to just really go back to what Will frequently says and what he just started that sentence with is, I don't understand. That's going to be on Will's tombstone. I don't understand. Off my fucking lawn. All right, we got one more. 04:27:22.040 --> 04:27:51.960 They're grumpier than me now. Jeez. What the fuck? I'm like, hey, just don't let your dog shit on my lawn. Grumpy and bitchy. So can I just say this? What's great is my very wholesome, nice neighbors across the street whose child was over here all day, who were my son is having a sleepover. They texted me and said, what's the name of Will's podcast? Because they all knew I couldn't participate in whatever going on because I was a podcast. 04:27:52.020 --> 04:28:21.260 And I said, I'm definitely not telling you, keep your quasi-wholesome image of me. All right. Last album. This is the band Werewolves and their second album, What a Time to Be Alive. They're an Australian death metal band. And I'm just going to come out and say it now. This is probably my album of the episode. I really dig the, their last, their first album came out last year. So they've been prolific. 04:28:22.040 --> 04:28:43.760 The first song on this album is called I Don't Like You. And it just starts off in your face and it's just like, I don't like you. And he goes off. It's kind of amusing how much he doesn't like you. And I dig it. I like it. 04:28:43.800 --> 04:28:50.100 I'm just going to say, and I hope you know this quote, which is werewolves, not swearwolves. 04:28:51.080 --> 04:29:20.700 One of you guys had to watch that movie. Nobody watched it. What we do in the dark. You guys watch. Oh yeah. Yeah. You guys are such losers. Oh no, dude. It's the funniest fucking faux documentary about a bunch of vampires who live together in a house in New Zealand. It's so fucking funny. It's take a what TT. Yeah. I'm just going to go on the record, George, to say right now that if I listen to this album, it's because of you. Right. So that we won't, if this ends up on any list, 04:29:21.100 --> 04:29:51.060 this doesn't turn into ordos yeah well i did like it too george i thought it was a really fast mix of death and black metal yeah i haven't listened yet that's why i say that mark is i i'll get to it at some point i like it yeah i kind of want to spin this while drinking a silver bullet yeah it's this year's uh it's this year's bear baseball yeah george you silver bullet once i figured out he's like wait silver bullet that's cool you by the way i'm sure you guys have been seeing the pictures that rob helfer 04:29:51.100 --> 04:30:03.980 has been sharing online lately. I know the assless chaps. That's nice. Is that him or is that Paul Stanley with those shoes? We need to get him out of the house, dude. He's going crazy. Yeah. I think somebody shared the assless chaps photo. All right. What are we listening to? 04:30:27.700 --> 04:30:28.940 Mark us on. 04:30:30.660 --> 04:30:49.840 Oh shit. Oh God. I just mentioned that. Okay. So my first record that I've been listening to is need nor Kestrion a song for the end on Icarus records, really great, catchy, progressive metal. I dug this one from the first listen and my fondness for it continues to grow. 04:30:50.060 --> 04:31:20.020 I really like this. I feel like I want more progressive metal this year for some reason. The second one is Transcending Obscurities 2021 Sampler. It's 38 tracks of new music from upcoming albums. There's a new Ashen Horde track. I was going to say anyone we know. Yeah, Skull, Trevor. But the whole thing is really good. I especially dig the new Feral song, Crypts of Despair, which is Death Meta. 04:31:20.120 --> 04:31:49.420 and Nolton songs quite a bit. But the sampler is broken up into four distinct genre chunks. So you get a bunch of death, grind and crust, slab of black metal, and then a do me pending. You guys notice one thing about the Ash and Horde song? No cleans. Right on. Yeah. Nervosa, Perpetual Chaos on Napalm Records. I really love this record. It's serious. 04:31:50.080 --> 04:32:19.860 High Octane Thrash. I have not really listened to this band much, but I'm not sure it matters because they have an all-new lineup for this record. The only original member is the guitarist. So I really like this record quite a bit. It's good. Yeah, Countless Skies Glow on Willowtip Records. This is a progressive melodic death metal album that came out last year, but I did not listen to it before a year. 04:32:20.060 --> 04:32:49.060 And that's too bad, because I feel like it may have cracked my top 25 if I had given it a shot before our year-end cast. Sabre Tiger, paragraph five on Wakuri Records. Sabre Tiger has been around for four decades, but they don't get much play here in the United States, and I only started listening to them a couple years ago. 04:32:51.359 --> 04:33:20.039 You don't get much play in the United States, church. I thought you were going to gloss over that. I spun this record, and I think Saber Tiger is one of the best traditional metal bands out there. I mean, it's got killer riffs, really good solos. I love the touches of progressiveness, really fun choruses, and I love the singer. He's got this husky vocal delivery that I 04:33:20.080 --> 04:33:49.939 I really like Malachim Theon Theion I don't know on Iron Bonehead Productions this is a really good record with weighty melodic guitars it's like a black metal but rinse and death we often hear the descriptor blackened melodic death a lot but I feel like that's not quite this record it's more like a death and melodic 04:33:50.080 --> 04:34:19.961 Black Metal. The Crown. The whole back catalog. The band announced their new record, Royal Destroyer, and I love the first single. So I've been spinning their last record, Cobra Speed Venom, a lot. I have it on vinyl, so I've been throwing it on there. And I've also been digging into the older stuff as well. And this Royal Destroyer is going to be their 11th record. So in the words of one, 04:34:20.061 --> 04:34:22.359 Jay Dickinson. It's a deep dive. 04:34:23.820 --> 04:34:24.180 Nice. 04:34:25.061 --> 04:34:27.340 I was doing a deep dive of them too because of the record. 04:34:28.080 --> 04:34:29.039 Really? Cool, man. 04:34:29.131 --> 04:34:31.061 Yeah, I mean, I love that last record. 04:34:31.480 --> 04:34:35.680 I can't even remember if I have it on my top 25 or top 40. 04:34:36.160 --> 04:34:36.820 I can tell you this. 04:34:36.850 --> 04:34:40.539 You definitely had the cover art, and you might have had the album. 04:34:40.590 --> 04:34:42.840 I think you did because I remember we had that in common. 04:34:43.461 --> 04:34:45.900 Yeah, I really like, I mean, I like all their albums, 04:34:46.080 --> 04:34:49.100 but their recent stuff is phenomenally good. 04:34:51.801 --> 04:35:19.020 Lightbearer, Magisterium, and Laddermost Sword. These are self-released albums. These are two instrumental demos that the band released a couple days ago. And they were made before Lightbearer disbanded a few years back. They called it quits before they could complete their third and fourth records of a planned four-album series that was really about deconstructing monothistic mythology. 04:35:19.879 --> 04:35:48.301 So I'm a big fan of this band. I believe their album Lapsus was on my top 50 of the first 50 years of metal. So it was a huge bummer for me when they broke up. So getting these two tracks the other day, it was a really nice surprise and a little glimpse of what could have been if they would have finished their quadrology. And then that's it. 04:35:48.340 --> 04:36:15.939 My album of the episode, as we do, is actually harder than I thought it was going to be. But I'm going to go with Countless Skies Glow because I missed it last year and I think it deserves more love. I wish that I would have given it more spins before the end of the year. Like I said, it's possible it could have cracked my top 25, but I really, really dig that out. 04:36:17.039 --> 04:36:17.859 Well, check that out. 04:36:18.900 --> 04:36:47.760 Yeah. There you go. All right. Mate or Master of Snuggieville. Snuggieville. Right. As mentioned, been hitting up that live migration album from Panopticon. Also checked out the new track No Hope from their fourth, his, their forthcoming album. And again, Into the Light. It just showed up on No Clean Singing earlier this week. I tried to jump on it and get it into my mix. The Lion's Daughter, 04:36:47.961 --> 04:37:17.939 Also has a new single out called Neon Teeth. They have a new album called Skin Show coming out later this year. They're kind of a sludgy band that really got some electronic elements in on their last album, which... Yeah, a lot of it in the last one. I thought it was completely fucking bizarre, and then I woke up one day and was like, I absolutely love that stuff, because again, it sounds to me like 70s and 80s horror, which I just have this gravitation towards. As I noted earlier, I've been checking out the 04:37:17.961 --> 04:37:47.779 The Victimized by Gypsy's Bad Catalog, which are just recordings of live music, working on my closure and all that shit. Yesterday I found a band called Flood Peak and they have an album called Fix Ritual. They are a blackened sludge slash post-metal band from Portland. It's their second album. I liked it on the first spin. I look forward to listening to it more. I have been super shitty about just focusing on music. But yeah, anyways, my album of the episode would have to be the new great. 04:37:48.479 --> 04:37:49.600 and unexpected reality. 04:37:50.199 --> 04:37:52.160 We kind of have that in the message in the chat. 04:37:53.301 --> 04:37:55.359 Like I get the comments about kind of the structure of it. 04:37:55.420 --> 04:37:56.381 It seems kind of weird to just, 04:37:56.641 --> 04:37:56.760 you know, 04:37:57.020 --> 04:37:57.820 slam out like six, 04:37:58.000 --> 04:37:58.180 seven, 04:37:58.381 --> 04:37:58.840 one minute songs. 04:37:59.221 --> 04:38:00.580 And then like a 10 minute doom song. 04:38:03.119 --> 04:38:03.820 But at the end of the day, 04:38:03.900 --> 04:38:04.160 it just, 04:38:04.381 --> 04:38:04.660 I don't know. 04:38:04.801 --> 04:38:04.859 It, 04:38:04.859 --> 04:38:06.320 it seems fitting for the, 04:38:06.480 --> 04:38:06.600 the, 04:38:06.600 --> 04:38:07.600 the times we live in, 04:38:07.699 --> 04:38:07.939 you know, 04:38:08.020 --> 04:38:08.420 like blah, 04:38:08.600 --> 04:38:08.660 blah, 04:38:08.779 --> 04:38:08.859 blah, 04:38:08.859 --> 04:38:08.920 blah, 04:38:09.039 --> 04:38:09.119 blah, 04:38:09.160 --> 04:38:09.240 blah. 04:38:10.480 --> 04:38:13.900 And then that sounds about right for the times. 04:38:14.320 --> 04:38:14.439 Yeah, 04:38:14.539 --> 04:38:14.820 exactly. 04:38:17.020 --> 04:38:17.180 So, 04:38:17.301 --> 04:38:17.400 yeah, 04:38:17.760 --> 04:38:46.859 I look forward to hearing the full link though. So that's it for me. Cool. John. I don't have much this week. I will say if you pay attention to our Facebook posts on Friday, you'll see most of the stuff I listen to and most of us contribute on there all the time if you want to get a full list, but just some ones that stand out. We've already mentioned the Dread Sovereign and the Gate Creeper. Both are solid. They're all right. You know, I like them. 04:38:47.740 --> 04:39:16.721 One album, it's an EP, Mother of Graves, Ensomber Dreams. It's a debut EP from a Death Doom band from Indiana. Their description of the EP is, if you're a fan of early Catatonia, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, Nathma and Tiamat, I'm like, I'm down. And it does. It has an early kind of Catatonia from the Brave Murdered Day, Sounds of Decay sound, which I'm totally down with because that's the stuff I like the most from Catatonia. 04:39:17.760 --> 04:39:23.561 It's pretty good. Really, after that, it's just a ton of bands from the 04:39:24.000 --> 04:39:47.600 USBM book, and you'll hear all those in our top five. But my album of the episode is from 2018, and it's all because of George. Of course it is. But it's indirectly because of George, though. Doesn't matter. Still counts. Quick, quick story. I regularly check everyone's band camp. 04:39:47.680 --> 04:40:17.640 what they bought and what's on their wish list. Everyone except Jay. Because Jay doesn't have a wish list. And I wish he did because I want to see what he's looking for. But that's okay. I do check everyone's to see if I've missed anything. And George, you had this band on there and I'm going to butcher the name because I don't speak any Danish. Can't be any worse than Agla Agla Agla that Dan was saying. That's a good point. I'll spell it real quick. I-O-T-U-M. 04:40:17.680 --> 04:40:18.060 NN. 04:40:18.560 --> 04:40:18.680 Oh, 04:40:18.860 --> 04:40:19.060 Yotun. 04:40:19.840 --> 04:40:20.040 Yotun. 04:40:20.100 --> 04:40:20.400 What is it? 04:40:20.560 --> 04:40:21.460 I think it's like Yotun. 04:40:22.020 --> 04:40:22.300 Yotun. 04:40:22.400 --> 04:40:22.560 Okay. 04:40:23.700 --> 04:40:25.320 I saw that and I was like, 04:40:25.440 --> 04:40:26.000 this is interesting. 04:40:26.020 --> 04:40:26.600 I like the cover. 04:40:26.600 --> 04:40:27.960 I listened to the song and I was like, 04:40:28.100 --> 04:40:28.300 wow, 04:40:28.560 --> 04:40:30.720 this is like kind of proggy metal-ish. 04:40:31.020 --> 04:40:33.340 Like the new one that's like at the top of my list. 04:40:33.920 --> 04:40:35.020 It's on your wishlist. 04:40:35.400 --> 04:40:36.820 It's got one song. 04:40:36.860 --> 04:40:37.180 And I was like, 04:40:37.240 --> 04:40:38.380 this singer sounds familiar. 04:40:38.740 --> 04:40:38.880 Well, 04:40:38.940 --> 04:40:40.180 it's the singer from Baron Earth. 04:40:40.280 --> 04:40:47.160 So I kept digging and I found a counter band called Sunless Dawn. 04:40:47.840 --> 04:41:16.840 Oh yeah. I know them too. I saw you got that. Yeah. And the album is called time weaver and it's a very impressive debut progressive death metal album with a lot of atmospherics, but not as it sounds. It's, it's an interesting album. And that ended up being my album of the episode. I just got it yesterday. I've listened to it like four times already since then. John sunless, sunless dawn. And the album is called time weaver. It's my last purchase. 04:41:17.320 --> 04:41:18.060 I just go to Bandcamp. 04:41:18.640 --> 04:41:19.400 Yeah, I follow you. 04:41:19.540 --> 04:41:21.200 Does everybody follow each other on Bandcamp? 04:41:21.260 --> 04:41:22.200 I don't even know if we do. 04:41:22.620 --> 04:41:22.880 Yes. 04:41:23.300 --> 04:41:23.480 We do. 04:41:23.860 --> 04:41:24.200 I do. 04:41:24.280 --> 04:41:26.960 I found it just because I was looking at it. 04:41:27.000 --> 04:41:30.000 I saw something on George's, the album cover caught my eye. 04:41:30.300 --> 04:41:31.560 And I was like, I'll check this out. 04:41:31.640 --> 04:41:34.280 And I just went down that little rabbit hole for a couple hours. 04:41:34.580 --> 04:41:35.900 Well, that's not out yet, right? 04:41:37.080 --> 04:41:37.340 No, no. 04:41:37.640 --> 04:41:38.340 That album's not out. 04:41:38.380 --> 04:41:39.480 But I found the Sunless song. 04:41:39.560 --> 04:41:39.840 Yeah, yeah. 04:41:39.840 --> 04:41:40.200 That's out. 04:41:40.280 --> 04:41:41.820 That's like a year or two ago. 04:41:42.040 --> 04:41:43.880 And I like the song that you had in your wishlist. 04:41:43.960 --> 04:41:44.880 I thought it was pretty good, too. 04:41:44.980 --> 04:41:46.140 So, yeah. 04:41:46.420 --> 04:41:46.600 Cool. 04:41:46.660 --> 04:42:16.640 That's it. All right. Will. I will be quick. After the year end, I tend to crawl into a rabbit hole of either new music or old school music. So I went down the Exodus rabbit hole and I started listening to the Exhibit B, The Human Condition, which is a fucking great album. I really like the Duke's era of Exodus. I just think it's 04:42:16.680 --> 04:42:46.560 Harder, faster, just like the way George likes it. Reading the U.S. Black Metal book, I went down a Krieg back catalog rabbit hole. I was familiar with some of the newer stuff, did not know some of the older stuff, so started listening to that. If you saw my Instagram post, I pulled out the Two Mole Primordial Malignity vinyl record. It's Two Mole, man. Fucking love Two Mole. 04:42:47.900 --> 04:43:16.640 I've been listening to their last album a lot lately. I don't know what it is. I didn't listen to what I've been listening to lately, but fucking I can't wait for more Tumult. Well, if the last few years is any indication, they'll probably come out with another one pretty soon. I hope so. This Bantha Rider, which is a Star Wars bass, Poland, instrumental stoner, sludge, doom band. They have a new 04:43:16.680 --> 04:43:24.160 album out called binary sunset massacre um so if you are a star wars fan you will find all kinds of interesting 04:43:25.050 --> 04:43:32.540 uh song titles in all their uh in all their songs um and then i went on the dead letter emissions 04:43:32.860 --> 04:43:39.220 podcast a couple weeks ago to interview paris mayhew from uh early cromags guitarist so i was 04:43:39.570 --> 04:43:45.480 been listening to a lot of cromags especially best witches which is the second cromags album which is one of my 04:43:45.500 --> 04:43:46.540 favorite albums of all time. 04:43:48.740 --> 04:43:55.740 And then I was one of the last things I bought before the year end was a album, 04:43:56.100 --> 04:43:57.220 a band called, 04:43:57.860 --> 04:43:59.200 I'm going to butcher this and I don't have my, 04:43:59.740 --> 04:44:00.780 actually I have my glasses right here. 04:44:00.820 --> 04:44:01.080 Hold on. 04:44:02.500 --> 04:44:06.680 It is the band name is have a crew new. 04:44:06.840 --> 04:44:07.420 Have a crew new. 04:44:07.700 --> 04:44:07.940 Yes. 04:44:08.080 --> 04:44:08.680 Have a crew new. 04:44:09.280 --> 04:44:09.540 Yeah. 04:44:10.600 --> 04:44:11.800 And the album was called. 04:44:13.840 --> 04:44:13.960 Good. 04:44:14.140 --> 04:44:44.020 Guinos, Swoyman, Spata. Sota, Sota, sorry. It's funny, on the Instagram, somebody sent us a message, because I'm doing the Instagram for us now, and they're like, oh, I can't believe you didn't have Havacruno on your lists. No, this, I bought the Havacruno very late in the year, and I really liked it. I was kind of surprised I liked it. It's good. It's usually not my wheelhouse, but, man, it was 04:44:44.958 --> 04:44:50.980 So my album in the episode I talked about in the mid-year, this is a list buster for me, Vrenth, Baptism Death. 04:44:53.660 --> 04:44:59.240 It's weird because I was thinking about this band, listening to this band, and I'm like, oh, these guys kind of remind me of Tumult. 04:44:59.900 --> 04:45:03.140 So I put on some Tumult, but yeah, this is just filthy, dirty death metal. 04:45:06.100 --> 04:45:12.820 They're from Southern California, just really done right in the vein of Outer Heaven, in the vein of Tumult. 04:45:13.620 --> 04:45:43.580 Just really, really, really check it out. Vrent, spelled V-R-E-N-T-H, and the album is Baptism Death. Cool. And that's all I've got to say about that. Can you put your glasses back on? I was going to say, let's be full of this. He looks so smart now. Yeah. Wow. All right. I'm weirdly smart when I'm not drinking. I will be quite brief. Not unlike Will, and honestly, I think most of us, I take a pretty big break after the 04:45:44.542 --> 04:46:13.580 at least I'm like scraping up new music so I have been listening like I don't like you guys to the new tracks that we have been seeing come down the pike namely the crown which I agree is a cool song I'm totally looking forward to that record Cobra Speed Venom was great I do like the new Tribulation song and I totally admit that I didn't realize it was in the box until fairly as recent as this morning so I haven't really had a chance to listen to that album much there were some other advanced tracks that 04:46:14.620 --> 04:46:42.800 fail me now, so I'll just leave that alone. But I also do take this time to go back and do some deep dive type stuff. And since I had a big Judas Priest year, I just said that I really wasn't intimate enough with Rob Halford's solo stuff. And I have to say that the Halford, the first two Halford records are fucking great, dude. If you don't know those, the ones he did with Roy Z, who's the same guy who did those Bruce albums that I like so much, up to and including an album, 04:46:42.860 --> 04:46:48.260 a live album called live insurrection which i just can't recommend those enough really quality 04:46:48.560 --> 04:46:52.840 um straightforward i think we just had a live insurrection wasn't so great you just had 04:46:53.420 --> 04:47:01.560 erection that's right live insurrection and um and which by the way joel do 04:47:03.460 --> 04:47:10.680 has the weirdest uh not weirdest but has a strange unsurprising cover to me in the live album which is 04:47:10.700 --> 04:47:40.500 Rob Halford's singing Blackout by the Scorpions, but it's a great record. So I'll leave it at that. I'll be spending some time with the Tribulation over the next couple of days to see where I'm feeling about that. And then I listen to a lot of black metal leading up to our list. So my list will be, take that as some of what I've been listening to when we get to the list. Fair enough. All right. My list is brief. So really be happy. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm from now, from here on out, my list. 04:47:40.700 --> 04:48:10.000 are six or less. Oh, wow. Really? This is a commitment for 2021, George? It's been actually happening for a while. Last few episodes, yeah. I mean, once in a while, I'll go one or two over, but for the most part, I keep everything news, new releases, and what I'm listening to six items. Oh, nice, George. By the way, your explanation of your only six is longer than... Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. That was six, six, six. 04:48:10.120 --> 04:48:39.820 That was planned. Okay. Nice. FYI, Gandalf set the shower. Keep going. Okay. So first up, we have a Grima rotting garden. Sorry. It's the fourth album from a Russian atmospheric black metal band. Next up. It's not out for another month, but we've got the promo Harakiri for the sky and their fifth album. Mayor M A E R E or an Austrian post black metal band. Good stuff. 04:48:41.240 --> 04:49:10.000 Did you like it? I haven't listened yet. Yeah, it's good. I like it. That's good, Matt. Just a shout out to Matt. Damn it. Who put a question mark? What I love is Matt is probably looking up to his right watching TV, but as soon as George is talking, in my view, you're looking up at George's Square. Oh, that's nice. It's awesome. It's like Hollywood Square. Number five. Make sure. Is he wearing a kilt? 04:49:10.140 --> 04:49:39.040 Can you see up it? Oh, well, he doesn't need a kill. He's not wearing pants at all. Exactly. Next up. I don't not totally clear on the pronunciation, but I'm going to go with Hulder H U L D E R. The album is a God slattering dash hymns of a forlorn peasantry. This is the debut full length black metal album from this one woman. 04:49:40.140 --> 04:50:10.100 A. Black Metal Band from Oregon via Belgium. Next up, more black metal. What a surprise. A band called Ol Hava. O-L-H-A-V-A. La Doga, their third album, Russian Atmospheric Black Metal. Did you get this from my list? I don't know. Because it was on my top 25. Oh, was it really? Yes. Okay, no, I didn't. I think I just saw it on somebody on 04:50:10.120 --> 04:50:40.060 I was like I like some kind of thing. I'm glad you pay attention to what I say, George. Thanks. Well, you know, I haven't. I have no, I have no, I have no excuse. It's awesome. It's a great album. It is good. Uh, two more, a storm of light. Forgive Us Our Trespasses, their sixth album, uh, New York sludgy post metal. This just dropped like yesterday. And I was like, wait, what? I hadn't heard anything about it. Uh, and, 04:50:40.140 --> 04:51:10.100 I dig those guys podfather's log stardate 1 25 2021 during the course of editing this episode it has come to light that this a storm of light album is in fact a reissue that I in fact already owned allow me to wipe the egg off my face and correct this now moving on and finally my sixth and final one which is not metal at all vardruna and their fifth album oh yeah I like that 04:51:10.120 --> 04:51:39.800 I want to say Kvitraven. They're like Norwegian dark folk. They play a lot of like traditional Norwegian instrumentation. Yeah. I was just listening to today, George. It translates to the White Raven. White Raven. Okay. Yeah. It's great. I fucking love that. And you know, my, it's not metal, but it's just like folk Norwegian folk music. Yeah. Well, I mean, Gall was on the first two albums, but you know, my, my Norwegian nephew was born this past week. 04:51:40.580 --> 04:52:08.660 My second Norwegian nephew. First one's name was Ragnar. This one. I got three more. Can I guess what his name is, George, real quick? You can, but you won't get it. Because I'd never heard this name before. Wait, hang on. Satan. Close. Close. Can I take a guess, too? Sure. Kevin. Nope. 04:52:10.100 --> 04:52:39.240 Okay. This is Ragnar and Kevin. It's Torstein. Okay. It's spelled T-O-R-S-T-E-I-N. And apparently... Stein is rock or stone. Yes. And Thor, I think, is Thor. No, it's Thor. I looked it up. It's actually a conjunction of Thor and stone. You're Thor. I'm Phil Thor. I can hardly walk. 04:52:40.120 --> 04:53:09.940 But apparently, you know, the Vikings TV show, there's the guy Ragnar. Yep. Ragnar. And his friend Torstein, who apparently bites it in season three. Well, I think the final season on Amazon. I have three more episodes to go. I'm going to guess Ragnar is sort of like John over there, though. Yeah, that's true. You can't throw a tour without hitting a Ragnar. Well, you know, I was actually speaking of Vardruna. That was fucking funny. Because of Vardruna, I threw out. 04:53:10.720 --> 04:53:39.780 Also because of the Vikings movie with Kirk Douglas. And they were like, nah, it's too common. Vikings movie with Kirk Douglas? What is that? Yeah. Don't you know the Vikings with Kirk Douglas and Tony Curtis? No, I don't think I've seen that. Oh, is that Spartacus? No, no, it's like. Spartacus is so good. Yeah. It's a lot of old. It's an old like mid-late 50s movie, I think. You guys ever read any books about the Vikings? Yeah. 04:53:40.100 --> 04:54:09.060 Yeah, definitely. They're good people. Yeah, what a bunch of assholes, man. I know. I can honestly say, like, you want to have cancel culture? Like, cancel Man of Marf. Like, you want to celebrate Vikings? A murderous, rapist group of people? I mean, they were mostly farmers, but yeah, they did. That just happened to pillage all of Western Europe. That's true. Even in North Africa. Oh, yeah. God. Hell, they were in Canada. They made it to Minnesota. Yeah. 04:54:10.100 --> 04:54:40.060 All right. You haven't heard about the runestones in Minnesota? Go back in my backyard. Matt, are you about to poop or are you trying to say something? Just know that if you ever hear the name Ragnar Johnson, that's me in witness protection. Okay. Last name Johnson. Middle name big. Ragnar Johnson. Hey, how you doing, man? Oh, my God. Look at my porn stash. Is that why you're hiding? The porn stash? 04:54:40.100 --> 04:55:09.440 and a snuggie. Matt has him trapped. Did the FBI not come up with a better disguise? Dude, just grow a porn stash and wear a snuggie. No one will ever know who you are. He's not selling his house. He's in witness protection. Too bad the block and sweatshirt gave you away. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Satan. Yeah, but Matt, you need to be there like this, you know? Oh, you're right. I need like a chalice of blood. Chalice of blood. Waits to fill up. Who is that? Huh? Huh? Forbidden. There you go, buddy. 04:55:10.120 --> 04:55:38.280 Can I just say I missed casting. It feels like it's been forever. I know it's only been a month, but holy fuck. Yeah, great. Yeah, we made up for it tonight. Yeah, we still got plenty left. Yeah, we made up for it. So I'm going to throw this next piece over to Matt. Bilbo's giving up the ring. Here we go. This is Thunderdome. Oh, shit. We haven't even done Thunderdome yet. We don't need another hero. 04:55:40.100 --> 04:55:42.520 We don't need another way. 04:55:44.760 --> 04:55:45.280 All right. 04:55:46.942 --> 04:55:50.380 So as we talked, year end is done. 04:55:50.610 --> 04:55:54.240 And so I kind of regress in things of like, I just want familiar shit. 04:55:54.640 --> 04:56:00.060 So as I'm walking my dog, I'm listening to the Mastodon albums I enjoy the most, 04:56:00.070 --> 04:56:01.240 which is numbers one through four. 04:56:02.660 --> 04:56:06.520 And I thought, oh man, this would be a good Thunderdome. 04:56:06.540 --> 04:56:35.400 I thought, what would I compare one of these albums to on top of which album would I use? And so what popped into my head was Blood Mountain. And I thought, what about Gojira and The Way of All Flesh? And so I got to that being, so with Mastodon, I feel like their breakthrough album, the album that everybody talks about is Leviathan, which is an amazing album. And with Gojira, the album I hear about the most is From Mars to Sirius, which again is an amazing album. 04:56:36.540 --> 04:57:06.520 These were the first albums I got for these bands. As I was coming out of New Metal Rehab, they helped kind of show me the light and bring me to the surface to realize what's going on with life. But most days, I actually prefer Blood Mountain and The Way of All Flesh. And I thought, what an interesting comparison, because these bands sound nothing alike, yet they have a lot of similarities. I mean, you have bands that have four members that have basically been 04:57:09.900 --> 04:57:34.920 They're not in a really black and white specified genre. I mean, I feel like both of them kind of dance in and out of that. Clearly, both bands are not. I mean, you look at Mastodon, they are not the band they were with Leviathan or, you know, even through Crack the Sky. With Gojira, I still really like Gojira, but they don't have that raw grit that they have with From Mars to Sirius or The Way of All Flesh. And I thought, you know what? 04:57:36.540 --> 04:58:05.760 When I looked at and I saw Blood Mountain versus The Way of All Flesh, I thought that's pretty fucked up. It really doesn't make a lot of sense. And so I wanted to pass that misery on to y'all and make you deal with it. Okay. As far as my selection goes. I was going to say, you could go second because while you picked it, you don't have to give your choice first. You can make Marcasson go first. The order. I'm happy to. 04:58:07.580 --> 04:58:35.100 Then do it. Just do it. Do it now. First of all, I'm happy that Matt got out of the new metal. I'm glad that Bitchy Limp Bizkit is no more. Don't relapse, dude. Unless it's a relapse sampler. FYI, the show is on MTV. It's called New Metal Rebo. Yeah, yeah. Bitchy Bizkit. Me and Steven Adler. Yeah, I thought this was a really cool pick. 04:58:35.180 --> 04:59:05.120 And now that you've explained it, it even makes more sense to me. I really enjoyed listening to this Gojira album again since I had not spun it in some time. But this time around, the Thunderdome choice is pretty easy for me. I absolutely love the first four Macedon albums. And Blood Mountain is glorious. There's this amazing technical skill to it, monster guitars, brilliant songs. 04:59:05.400 --> 04:59:35.120 I love the vocal performances and the drums. Holy fuck, they're amazing. And conceptually, Blood Mountain is a record that tells the story of a climb up a mountain and all the hazards you'd encounter if you scaled that mountain, some of them being real, some of them being imagined, which is fucking cool and also inspiring. So yeah, I mean, it's not a real concept. 04:59:35.200 --> 05:00:04.360 I like Gojira, but I've never been a super fan of them. I like them live, but I've never been a super fan of them record-wise. But when it comes to the first four records for Mastodon, I love them. I think they're amazing. So Blood Mountain for me, not close. All right. Now Matt. Okay. I would echo what Markinson says. 05:00:04.500 --> 05:00:34.440 the first four mastermind albums to me are, I don't even really see it. Like, yes, there's a difference between them, but I, at times I really don't even see it because they all kind of blend together in a good way. Um, but there are parts of this, the, the way of all flesh that are spiritual to me. I think when you listen to them and you get to the art of dying followed by esoteric surgery, that moment just kind of puts me over the edge, puts me over the mountain. 05:00:34.500 --> 05:01:04.280 The Blood Mountain. It really kind of brings that album home for me. And so at the end of the day, I do have to go with Gojira. Gojira. Interesting. Okay. John. So this is an interesting Thunderdome for me. More on that when we're done. This is a tough one, though, because I like both albums equally the same. And for reasons that they follow up. 05:01:04.500 --> 05:01:33.380 Two of my favorite albums by both of the bands. And when we did our Top 10 post-2000 a number of years ago, I think Mastodon, Leviathan was my number two in Gojira. From Mars to Cirrus was my number three on that list. So I had a tough time with this because I view both of these follow-up albums the same. They're, for me, pretty equal in terms of the number of good songs on them. 05:01:34.500 --> 05:02:03.060 And it really boiled down to which was my favorite song from each album, which one rolled out off of Gojira's album. The Way of All Flesh is my favorite song. That intro is just amazing. And then off of Blood Mountain, my favorite song is Crystal Skull, which I remember when that came out. And I just played that song to death before the album came out. And in the end, the Crystal Skull won out for me. 05:02:03.160 --> 05:02:32.900 And I went with Maston's Blood Mountain. By the slumice of margins. All right. Will. I don't know if it was on Messenger earlier in the podcast because we're going on hour 17 right now. I had no idea who picked this. What do we call this? Thunderdome. Thunderdome, yeah. 05:02:33.140 --> 05:03:00.080 I thought it was brilliant. And I thought it was brilliant to me in, in such a way that Matt articulated. So now that I found that it was Matt who picked it, I think this is brilliant because for me personally, and Matt hinted at this or outright said it's, it is two of my favorite albums of all time, as in Gojira, Mars is serious, still one of my favorite albums of all time. 05:03:03.160 --> 05:03:03.920 albums of all time. 05:03:04.740 --> 05:03:06.060 And I felt like. 05:03:07.298 --> 05:03:10.060 Macedon's follow up album and Gojira's follow album. 05:03:11.000 --> 05:03:13.420 Were massive drop offs. 05:03:14.360 --> 05:03:14.720 From. 05:03:15.500 --> 05:03:17.380 Those previous albums for both of them. 05:03:18.680 --> 05:03:21.020 I'm not saying that either album is bad, 05:03:21.140 --> 05:03:21.540 but I, 05:03:21.780 --> 05:03:22.680 I hold. 05:03:23.760 --> 05:03:24.660 From Mars is serious. 05:03:25.180 --> 05:03:27.900 And Leviathan in such high regard. 05:03:29.060 --> 05:03:29.200 That. 05:03:30.100 --> 05:03:30.880 I don't think either. 05:03:31.540 --> 05:03:32.500 Definitely with Macedon. 05:03:32.560 --> 05:04:01.040 Neither band has ever produced anything as good as those two albums. Ever. It's kind of like it's their Master of Puppets. It's their Season of the Abyss. Just nothing else compares. Is that a Cranberry song or something? No, that's Sinead O'Connor. I thought it was Simbad O'Connor. Yeah, Sinead O'Connor. Written by Prince. 05:04:02.560 --> 05:04:32.280 So anyway, not to beat around the bush longer, but I'm going with Gojira, Away of All Flesh, because I do think that is a better album than Blood Mountain for me by far. It's not even a contest, but I did find this choice extremely interesting in that, you know, what I explained earlier, just like to me, they're both massive drop-offs. 05:04:32.560 --> 05:05:02.500 from two of my favorite albums of all time. And which one did a better album after that? And for me, this is crazy. We're tied. We're tied. Yeah. It's already a great pick from that. I think this is a brilliant pick for numerous reasons. So anyway, go. I'm going to predict that this is going to end in a tie. Well, we know which way you're going. We'll ask Daniel. Yeah. And I, um, 05:05:02.540 --> 05:05:32.320 I will say a few things about these to myself, but I'll be brief. One, I like the Gojira record a lot. It's, it is a drop off from our series, but it's a good record. And I will, and somebody mentioned sort of being spiritually connected to it. And I remember when I got to the song, the art of dying, which I think is the best song on the record, that record. I, I was like this and I was studying Buddhism at the time really intensely, which I studied for eight or 10 years. And I was like, this is about the book of the dead. It has to be about the Tibetan book of the dead. I'm positive. 05:05:32.920 --> 05:06:02.120 And I was so thrilled that when I read an interview with them and they mentioned that it was, I was like, I was just so pleased that I was able to pick that out and that they so accurately depicted that experience without explaining what they were doing. Long story short. That was, that was really cool. That stated, um, I thought, uh, uh, Mastodon was the great white hope, um, for a while. I totally agree that basically after, um, uh, the Rasputin one and then, yeah. And then, and then, 05:06:02.540 --> 05:06:32.500 a little bit, the next one was a little bit okay, whatever, but then they really dropped off. But I think Blood Mountain is brilliant. And I think, and I would only add to, Marcus, you described it, the story and the record. It is also meant to be the metaphorical climb up into the new major label that they were on. They were going to now climb that mountain. So even though they were telling the story, that metaphor was sort of about their personal climb. That stated, like I said, I think Master Dan was the great one. 05:06:32.560 --> 05:07:02.520 I think Blood Mountain is wonderful. So I choose Blood Mountain. And I like the Gojira record a lot, but for me it's Mastodon. First four Mastodon records are some of the best fucking metal records of the post-2000s. Yeah. I know I talk a lot of shit about Mastodon, but that's because they suck now. But I do like the first three albums, and I emphasize three. I think you mean the 05:07:02.540 --> 05:07:30.740 2, 3, and 4 probably. You're leaving out remission maybe. No, that one's all. I mean, it's not great, but I like it better than, I'm not a big fan of Crack the Sky. Oh, okay. I mean, I liked it when it came out, but it's a little proggy, weird. Okay. But Leviathan and Blood Mountain, I do like. And I went back and I listened to Blood Mountain again after this, and I was like, yeah, this is a really good album. So, just going on the record for that. 05:07:32.560 --> 05:08:02.180 I don't want you to think I'm not giving it a fair shake. But Gojira is also really good. And I still technically like everything they've done, mostly, for the most part. So I have to go and create a tie with the way of all flesh. But... Whoa, nice. Well, the listeners will have to decide. This happens very often. 05:08:02.540 --> 05:08:32.200 It's funny you said that, George, because I also look at it that way. Not in this comparison, but I still like everything that Gojira has done. I do not like everything that Mastodon has done. Yeah. When I was listening to Blood Mountain, I was like, hmm, could I choose this? I mean, it was a viable option while I was listening to it. I was like, this is good. So if you guys wanted to... I'm sorry. It just came down to Gojira was heavier. 05:08:33.200 --> 05:09:01.440 For me. If you guys want to decide this tonight, I could try to get Kamala Harris on the phone. I mean, obviously it was a good pick. I mean, it was. It's a brilliant pick. I think it's a super brilliant pick. Divided us right down the middle. Thank you. Thank you. Can I add an addendum to this? So after I did my last, my first Thunderdome, I already have my second Thunderdome and I've been holding it up to this point. 05:09:02.560 --> 05:09:03.580 And then I got the script. 05:09:06.080 --> 05:09:06.940 This is it, John. 05:09:07.480 --> 05:09:08.180 Is this really it? 05:09:08.720 --> 05:09:08.980 No. 05:09:10.620 --> 05:09:13.960 I immediately sent Matt a message and I said, well done. 05:09:14.280 --> 05:09:15.820 You bested me on this. 05:09:17.080 --> 05:09:20.580 I had something set up for the battle of the best whale. 05:09:21.500 --> 05:09:25.180 Which is going to be Leviathan versus Cermar's the Series. 05:09:25.580 --> 05:09:26.580 Oh my God. 05:09:27.040 --> 05:09:28.540 And I had been holding this the whole time. 05:09:28.780 --> 05:09:31.880 And then Matt get it and put it on the script. 05:09:32.040 --> 05:10:00.480 I was like, fair enough. Son of a bitch. Still a good one, though, John. To me, that would be harder than this one. But that's okay because his idea of going with the next album after those two albums, and they really are parallel bands at that point. Before Massadon kind of went off on the, we'll let that guy with all the tattoos sing now. If you know what I mean by that. We do. 05:10:01.600 --> 05:10:31.360 At that point, they really were on the same trajectory. I'm glad we got to do at least one of them. I have my next one already in mind. It doesn't get better than this when we split. That means that it's just a great Thunderdome. You know what else it means? Half of us are wrong. You are not, Jay. Good choice, Matt. Jay, who are you throwing your weight behind on this one? 05:10:31.660 --> 05:10:32.220 Myself. 05:10:58.560 --> 05:11:28.520 So we're doing our top five USBM albums based on the interview with Dan and Nick. Marcus San, what is your number five? Can we just be clear? BM stands for black metal, not bowel movement. Now please go. I don't think anybody's going to mistake that, Jay, but thank you for the clarification. Hey, there are certain albums that will help you take a shit. It's funny because this was actually mentioned in the interview when Daniel was trying to decide 05:11:28.600 --> 05:11:58.520 which album he thought was better and he picked the right one and that is wolves in the throne room two hunters from 2007 on southern lord records um no band quite does northwestern mystic black metal like wolves in the throne room for me and this album showcases that style the best in my opinion i especially love the lp version which features a 16 minute bonus 05:11:58.540 --> 05:12:27.940 song called To Reveal. And there's an extended version of the song Cleansing that adds six minutes to the standard version. But this is an album I keep coming back to. And I love Wolves in the Throne Room live. I've seen them maybe five times, I think, in Chicago. So love it. I toyed with making this higher, but I love it. I'm not surprised to see them five times because for a while they were opening for everybody. 05:12:31.840 --> 05:12:58.120 All right, my number five. I really like this style of black metal. It has kind of a medieval tone to it. And I've chatted with Tanner at Hammerheart a number of times. The band is Obsequia. I think I said that right. Aria of Vernal Tombs came out in 2015. Number five. Good album. All right, John. So I had mentioned earlier that I had 05:12:58.160 --> 05:13:28.000 a newer album on my list. And this is now from 2019. It was, I think, 28 on my top 40. And it'll probably be higher now because I've listened to it a lot more. They by far have the least black metal name for a band. But I really like this album a lot. And I think it's the best in their catalog. And that's Abigail Williams' Walk Beyond the Dark. I love that album. I was never really a fan until I heard it last year. And I was like, wow. Or two years ago. 05:13:28.160 --> 05:13:57.880 or whatever came out. And I've dug back two more albums. I don't know if I'll get into their first two albums, but I like their last three albums and this one the most. Good album. All right, Will. Being probably the least black metal fan in this podcast, you guys will all hate my list. However, my number five is a local DC band, Sick Deer, and their album Awake Proceed. 05:13:58.140 --> 05:14:28.120 It's a really good album. I think we expected at least a sick dare album, right? Yeah. I mean, they're great. They're awesome. I mean, even Dan and Nick perfused their love for them. All right, Jay. They should have a record called Lyme Disease. I hope they do someday. There was a few things validated by our guests for me, and I am going to be brief on mine, except to say that I mentioned this record during their interview. I don't really talk to the black metal crowd a lot, so I didn't know this was as influential around 05:14:28.660 --> 05:14:57.760 the scene as it is, but I loved it when I got it and it's stuck with me to this day. My number five is We Clean Dead as Dreams. Right on. Nice. My number five, Dan mentioned it as well. Kralis. Kralis. Back to Markazan. That's it, huh? Wow. Number four for me, we talked about this band quite a bit in the interview and it's Agaloc, Ashes Against the Grain from 2007 on the end records. 05:14:58.160 --> 05:15:27.740 I love the dark atmosphere, the ambience, the aggression on this record. Before this album, Agaloc was more of a neo-folk metal band, more of an acoustic sound, and this one turned up the guitars while still giving you that pretty folk music and melancholy that made the previous albums compelling. This is the album from Agaloc that got me into the band. So number four, Ashes Against the Grain. Cool. 05:15:28.160 --> 05:15:58.080 Matt? Number four. I would actually describe this band as technical black metal. It's Kralis, self-titled. Noise. The guitarist, I don't know if he plays bass guitar, Colin Marston. He has his fingerprints all over all sorts of black metal as a producer. I know that now after reading this book. Yeah. Cool. John. Good time. So my number four was already mentioned. 05:15:59.500 --> 05:16:27.220 On our guest list, and that is Cobalt Gin. It's cold gin time again. All right. By Cobalt. Yeah. Do you like that album? Will? By number four, Ukiyaru for Darkness to Subside. Ah, shit. I think that is a phenomenal record, and I think that is their best, by far, their best record. 05:16:29.240 --> 05:16:57.720 Very nice. Jay. Wakeling was a San Francisco project, by the way, and my number four is a San Francisco one-man project as well. The dude now lives in Portland, I do believe. Leviathan, Tentacles of Horror. I was really into Leviathan for a while. I haven't listened to him in a little while, but there was maybe four or five records there. I was way into these guys, and this was my favorite of the bunch. Cool. Way into this guy, not these guys. This guy? Yeah. 05:16:58.940 --> 05:17:26.520 Yeah, because you're not a whore or anything. He's a slut, not a whore. It is. You know how it's spelled well, right? Senticles of Horror. W-H-O-R-R-E-R. Anywho. Georgie. My number four. This band has been mentioned, but not this album. Obsequia. But I went with The Palms of Sorrowed Kings. 05:17:29.920 --> 05:17:58.120 That one. Whatever it's called. Vernal Tombs. That one. It's good as well. Back to Markisan. My number three is this. Yellow Eyes Emerging Trench Reverie from Gilead Media in 2017. I have professed my love for this band a lot in the pod because I think they continually push 05:17:58.160 --> 05:18:25.080 Black Metal into Interesting New Places every album. And Emerging Trench Reverie makes this list because it's my favorite record that they've done. I love all of their records, but this is just a brilliantly textured album that blends melody and dissonance perfectly. And I've lost count of the number of times I've spun this one. So Yellow Eyes, Emerging Trench Reverie, number three. 05:18:25.820 --> 05:18:26.480 All right. 05:18:29.460 --> 05:18:30.360 Number three. 05:18:30.760 --> 05:18:31.120 Toomes. 05:18:31.680 --> 05:18:33.020 Path of Totality. 05:18:33.320 --> 05:18:34.600 This is my first Toomes record. 05:18:35.460 --> 05:18:36.060 And I love it. 05:18:38.540 --> 05:18:39.820 I like space. 05:18:40.560 --> 05:18:41.440 And I like this record. 05:18:41.760 --> 05:18:42.680 I like space. 05:18:45.940 --> 05:18:46.960 It's my body. 05:18:47.100 --> 05:18:47.700 It's my choice. 05:18:48.040 --> 05:18:48.640 Love it. 05:18:53.100 --> 05:18:53.380 John. 05:18:54.000 --> 05:18:54.360 All right. 05:18:54.700 --> 05:19:24.620 So my number three is a band I'd never heard before until I read this book. And I am quickly becoming a big fan. It's nice to know that San Francisco and the Bay Area, specifically San Francisco, a place I grew up in, is actually no more than just for thrash metal. It's also apparently a black metal hub. And of course, I left already and it moved back east when this all started. But the band, 05:19:24.700 --> 05:19:54.580 is Ludacra, or Ludacra, whatever you want to say. And it's Fex Ubris Lex Orbis from 2006. Nice album. And I was just like, what the fuck? I thought you would go with the Tenet. It's, they kind of defy black metal because they don't necessarily black metal. As they were in the first album, it's a whole mismatch of stuff going on, but they were a powerful band when they were around. John, they also, 05:19:54.680 --> 05:19:57.240 are a kind of super band. 05:19:57.320 --> 05:19:57.800 They are. 05:19:57.960 --> 05:20:01.300 I was just saying one of the dudes from Hammerson Misfortune is in there. 05:20:01.400 --> 05:20:01.480 Yeah. 05:20:01.780 --> 05:20:01.860 John, 05:20:02.160 --> 05:20:02.220 John, 05:20:02.980 --> 05:20:03.640 John Abbott from, 05:20:04.000 --> 05:20:04.080 yeah. 05:20:04.480 --> 05:20:05.500 And they've got the basis, 05:20:05.900 --> 05:20:07.540 which is kind of an interesting name. 05:20:07.620 --> 05:20:09.700 Ross sewage is from exhumed. 05:20:10.240 --> 05:20:12.380 And the drummer is from, 05:20:12.680 --> 05:20:12.840 well, 05:20:12.880 --> 05:20:13.880 he played in Aglock. 05:20:14.040 --> 05:20:15.360 He's not an original member of Aglock. 05:20:15.500 --> 05:20:16.980 He joined Aglock after leaving them. 05:20:17.160 --> 05:20:17.880 He joined after. 05:20:18.060 --> 05:20:18.220 Yeah. 05:20:19.280 --> 05:20:21.560 So they had a short span, 05:20:21.740 --> 05:20:22.120 but man, 05:20:22.180 --> 05:20:22.260 they, 05:20:22.680 --> 05:20:23.520 every album is killer. 05:20:23.740 --> 05:20:53.340 And I'm totally on board with them. Yeah, they're good. Will. I was also in Sloth Fag for a while, by the way. He's like in everything. He's kind of in everything. Go Will. Number three. You ought to gin. Number three? You ought to what? You ought to go cobalt gin? Black metal book, which I completely skipped over. 05:20:53.440 --> 05:21:23.160 because it was an addendum at the end of another anyway, whatever. All right. Mine is, I know there are some differing opinions on which of the last two records was the better by this band, but I also have some devotees on the cast. I really love these guys, and I love the mix of what they're doing. Wayfarer, A Romance with Violence. I went with the newer one. I think they're only getting more Western, and that only appeals to me more. This is one of the newer, 05:21:23.440 --> 05:21:52.500 things in black metal to me that somebody was able to cross these two kind of concepts over and I love that fucking record so awesome Jay and I know you were convert because you like the the one world's blood boat better when you first listen to it and then it's changed over time and then this one really came charging over and just knocked my teeth out man I mean it's it's so fucking good it is it's not on my list but it is my on my honorable mentions my number my number three 05:21:54.862 --> 05:22:23.380 I had a tough time picking the album from them, but I went with the one that I decided is the best of both worlds for me because it's both black metal partially and folky Americana partially. That's eyebrows go up. This is Panopticon and the scars of man on the once nameless wilderness one and two. 05:22:27.940 --> 05:22:53.000 All right. Surprise. Surprise. Surprise. Matt hasn't named them off already. Three times. One through five. Two more chances. Yeah. Yeah. Mark us on number two. Number two for me. This band has been named a different album. But this one is my favorite from this band. It is a cobalt slow. 05:22:57.220 --> 05:22:59.960 I love gin but I just think this is the 05:23:00.530 --> 05:23:08.220 the ultimate uh kobold album it is it's my biggest my biggest omission but that should be on my list 05:23:09.300 --> 05:23:16.940 black metal that mixes sludge crust thrash just mountainous crushing riffs on this and it was my 05:23:17.010 --> 05:23:22.600 number one when we did our top five black metal albums in the last five years a couple casts ago 05:23:23.520 --> 05:23:25.040 So it's still pretty high 05:23:25.480 --> 05:23:27.200 on this list at number two. 05:23:27.820 --> 05:23:29.920 This may seem like a weird comment on this, 05:23:30.320 --> 05:23:32.760 but I feel like that record should have sold a million fucking copies. 05:23:32.980 --> 05:23:35.940 It was so appealing on so many levels 05:23:36.180 --> 05:23:36.800 that I still don't. 05:23:37.100 --> 05:23:37.320 I know. 05:23:37.960 --> 05:23:40.780 I lost my mind when this came out and nobody else got it. 05:23:41.320 --> 05:23:43.480 Jay, didn't you say this? 05:23:43.580 --> 05:23:44.880 It's the black metal album that can cross over, 05:23:45.080 --> 05:23:45.880 and yet it didn't. 05:23:46.180 --> 05:23:46.760 You know what I mean? 05:23:46.900 --> 05:23:47.560 It's really weird. 05:23:47.600 --> 05:24:17.240 Yeah. Didn't I say what Will? You say that it reminded you a lot of tool. Yeah, it's very tool-ish. It's got some tool in it, yeah. The drumming's definitely very tool-like. Yeah, and it's heavy as fuck. It's just so good. There's really no reason. I actually don't have it on here because it's really not that much of a black metal record, in all honesty. There may be a black metal band, but, and I'm not, I totally agree with it being here, but in any case. George. Or no, 05:24:17.600 --> 05:24:46.800 Why did I say George, man? I mean, it's in the book. It's in the book. Oh, no. Hey, legit, dude. Raise your right hand. Yeah, I'm with you. All right, my number two. The band has been mentioned. George, in terms of this band, I would like you to open your heart as you move forward from this episode. The band is Yellow Eyes. My pick today, and really my pick for this band is how bitchy do I feel on any given day, because it could change tomorrow. 05:24:49.360 --> 05:24:54.520 I was wondering I thought this would be on your list Matt I didn't know which one you would pick 05:24:55.540 --> 05:25:17.560 well we did the black metal list and I feel like you and I chose the same ones we chose from previous because you did uh trench immersion trench reverie that's right which I love that album as well but today it's where it's the RCF the RFC you know what's funny is George we were on instant messengers like oh maybe 05:25:17.560 --> 05:25:46.020 Maybe we'll do top five black metal bands in the US. And when he said that, I was like, I might have to go with Yellow Eyes because their catalog is so strong to me overall. So I don't know because I didn't think about it that much because we had already decided we were going to do albums. But all their albums are really good. Yeah. I don't discern that much between them. It's just their sound in general. Right. 05:25:47.080 --> 05:26:16.900 And sometimes my eyes are yellow. FYI. Just throw that out there. That's not a good thing. Johnny boy. It's like jaundice or something when you have yellow eyes. It's like, it's like, it's honestly eyes. Hey, or you're just a yellow eyed demon from supernatural seasons one through four. Good, good, good reference. So my number two has already been mentioned twice. And I'm really happy to hear that. 05:26:17.080 --> 05:26:47.040 because this band is definitely one of my favorite black metal bands, not just from the U.S., but in general. And that is Wolves in the Throne Room, Two Hunters. Yes. You really, you can't go wrong. And I was really glad to hear, I believe it was Dan had mentioned Celestial Lineage. I like all their stuff, but this one's probably my favorite of all of them. Agreed. And it was actually hard to pick it because I do like all 05:26:47.100 --> 05:27:16.640 their albums. I gotta say, Diadem of 12 Stars is a great place, but this one to me is the ultimate Wolves in the Throne Room album. So cool that you picked it, John. Will? My number two, funny enough, I didn't really consider these guys that much black metal, but I fucking love this band. I love this album until I saw that it was in the book. So it's okay. Someone else. Go Whore, Vengeful Ascension. Yeah. Such a good album. 05:27:16.740 --> 05:27:45.760 And I was like, you know, it's kind of black metal-y, but, you know, okay, you know. Yeah. If the Bible of black metal says it's a black metal album, then it's a fucking black metal album. Goddamn, I like this album. Yeah. I wanted to go with GoHore on my list because I really like them a lot. But I was like, eh, I just don't consider them black metal. But it's in the book, so. Heresy! Heresy! It's okay. Old school black metal. Splitter! 05:27:48.960 --> 05:27:49.680 So similarly, 05:27:50.360 --> 05:27:54.040 Will and I went in interestingly close directions on a couple of choices here, 05:27:54.200 --> 05:27:56.200 but this is something he said recently. 05:27:57.540 --> 05:28:01.120 And it was the one I thought I might get shamed for because I thought people would be like, 05:28:01.220 --> 05:28:01.380 eh, 05:28:01.410 --> 05:28:02.740 it's not traditional enough or whatever. 05:28:03.622 --> 05:28:06.540 But I still think it's one of the best albums in a while. 05:28:06.810 --> 05:28:09.480 And it does fall under black metal or at least close enough to it. 05:28:09.920 --> 05:28:10.240 Uwata, 05:28:10.510 --> 05:28:10.600 Gin. 05:28:11.340 --> 05:28:12.220 This is fucking great, 05:28:12.360 --> 05:28:12.480 dude. 05:28:12.680 --> 05:28:12.860 You know, 05:28:13.040 --> 05:28:14.520 I just fucking love that record so much. 05:28:14.680 --> 05:28:15.420 And it is, 05:28:15.940 --> 05:28:45.900 If it's in the category, and I was so pleased to hear they're in the book. So that was another one. I got off on that. So there you go. George. Yeah, apparently. Yeah, I mean, I got off. If you read it well, it's in the book. You know, listen, I will admit, like, I do not have time. Like, I don't know, maybe you guys have more time. I don't have as much time. So I read like the first half, first third of the book, and then I skipped around a lot to like stuff that was going to be interesting. And I did, I didn't, I 05:28:45.920 --> 05:29:15.880 I looked for Uata. So you're saying Uata wasn't interesting enough for you to read? No, it was. But it's like this big long title and then Slash, which I found out tonight. Anyway, blah, blah, blah. It gives a shit. Just giving you the business, Bill. You know, between Uata and Cobalt, there's a lot of gin going on. That's cool. Nice. Well done, George. Whose turn is it? Yours. Is it really? Yeah. Jay just went with Uata. Oh, yeah, that's right. 05:29:15.940 --> 05:29:45.860 All right, my number two, Tombs, but I'm going Savage Gold. Nice. I knew that to be one of your favorites. Yeah, Path of Totality is really good, as is Winter Hours. Is that the one he said he hates? He hates that fucking album? No, it's the one after that, Grand Annihilation. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right, let's bring it home. Numero uno. Number one. Number one. So this band writes, 05:29:45.940 --> 05:30:15.760 It's stunning, uplifting, atmospheric black metal with amazing bluegrass and folk instrumentation. Of course, I'm talking about Panopticon. And any of the albums by this dude are worthy of the top five. But my favorite, the one I always come back to is Autumn Eternal. I love the atmosphere on this album. It's just incredible. It makes me feel like I'm lost in an endless wilderness with a knife and a bag. 05:30:15.920 --> 05:30:44.580 I have beef jerky and I'm walking into a forest filled with great mysteries and unknown danger. And you know what? I'm perfectly fine with that. Panopticon, Autumn Eternal, number one. Hey, Marcus, just don't tease the Bigfoot when you have your beef jerky. If you know the commercials. I will not tease the Bigfoot, Josh. Have you seen those commercials? I haven't. I don't really watch commercials that much. 05:30:44.620 --> 05:31:14.560 Now I will watch it though. Matt. Which one did you pick? Echoing everything Markson said. This happens to me with a lot of things. A lot of bands. The first time I hear them, that becomes my favorite if it's good over time. For me, that's Roads to the North. I love Autumn Eternal. It is the closure to the trilogy of albums. It is an amazing album. 05:31:14.620 --> 05:31:15.500 But it was 05:31:16.200 --> 05:31:17.280 Rhoads to the North 05:31:17.430 --> 05:31:18.500 is what I first heard 05:31:18.700 --> 05:31:19.640 which first kind of 05:31:19.840 --> 05:31:20.500 turned me on to this 05:31:20.800 --> 05:31:20.920 so 05:31:21.460 --> 05:31:22.120 going with that 05:31:22.300 --> 05:31:23.380 I think it's interesting that 05:31:23.860 --> 05:31:25.180 one band has three different albums 05:31:25.780 --> 05:31:26.560 in the list 05:31:26.680 --> 05:31:27.360 I'm not surprised 05:31:27.640 --> 05:31:29.220 Rhoads to the North 05:31:29.960 --> 05:31:31.480 I struggle with 05:31:31.600 --> 05:31:32.520 was I going to go with 05:31:32.720 --> 05:31:32.980 Autumn Eternal 05:31:33.340 --> 05:31:34.200 or Rhoads to the North 05:31:34.360 --> 05:31:35.720 so I totally feel 05:31:36.060 --> 05:31:37.060 what Matt's saying here 05:31:37.220 --> 05:31:37.400 because 05:31:37.920 --> 05:31:38.560 that's definitely 05:31:38.630 --> 05:31:39.640 on my honorable mentions 05:31:39.880 --> 05:31:40.440 I'm very close 05:31:40.580 --> 05:31:41.680 it's a little bit more raw 05:31:42.180 --> 05:31:43.840 I like that about the album 05:31:44.282 --> 05:31:48.860 But to me, Autumn Eternal is like a perfect panopticon album. 05:31:51.100 --> 05:31:51.360 John? 05:31:52.820 --> 05:32:05.900 So my number one is now I'd heard before, but I liked it, but I never really dove into it as much as I should have. And I did with the book. And I absolutely fell in love with it. I'm not going to lie to you. 05:32:06.000 --> 05:32:33.420 It doesn't hurt that they're from my hometown. And I'm not going to lie to you. I love the very polite fuck you to the book that they gave, which was thanks, but no thanks. We don't want to be interviewed. But it is an absolutely stellar album. And every time I've listened to it, I've listened to it a lot. One of the few things I've actually listened to a lot in the last few weeks, and that's weakling dead as dreams. It really is a spectacular album. 05:32:36.020 --> 05:33:05.920 of giving us at least one more album. Just to kind of countermeasure. There's enough on there to keep you busy for a long time. I think it's like, what, 78 minutes long? It's a long album. I think exactly 78 minutes long. Yeah. It's worthy of its place in the black metal lore. Yeah, it's surprising how good that is. Yeah, considering that it's really not a good record. Well, it's actually a half decent recording compared to early stuff. I think that absolutely nothing to promote it or anything like that. 05:33:06.060 --> 05:33:35.060 in any real way. And they didn't want to record it. Yeah. And it got to some people. The main guy was hesitant to do it, but they convinced him to record it. So that's crazy. Well, my number one is Wayfarer. And it was a tough, it was like Sophie's Choice, but it wasn't just a binary, one or the other. It was between like three. Yeah. Just counting the first one, which I don't have. So. 05:33:36.000 --> 05:34:05.980 Old Souls, World's Blood, Romance of Violence, and I went with World's Blood. That is my, I think, of the three of them, that's my favorite wafer album, so that's what I'm going with. Unlike Panopticon, it's going to be tough to make a bad choice, so it's actually cool. We're covering a few titles, which we are about to do again, Will, with my number one, and you, I don't have the book, so you only just now, this was the one I thought I was really going to take 05:34:11.102 --> 05:34:14.160 I did go a different direction than you. I went with 05:34:14.320 --> 05:34:18.260 Goat Horse, Blood for the Master. I love Goat Horse so much and that's my favorite 05:34:18.420 --> 05:34:22.020 record by them. So everything from Carving Out the Eyes of God. 05:34:22.390 --> 05:34:25.800 The other ones are great too. They were more black metal before Carving Out the Eyes of God but 05:34:26.270 --> 05:34:30.280 they went more old school. Blood for the Master, I still put that on pretty regularly 05:34:31.120 --> 05:34:32.940 and all of them. I love Goat Horse. 05:34:35.080 --> 05:35:05.040 I my number like they're due for another album actually I they were they was a post that they were writing and in pre-production and I want to say that was as much as eight months ago so I'm sure it's coming soon we'll get one this year I bet cool sorry judge go ahead no worries uh no surprises here my number one is cobalt slow forever that was two cobalts you had two cobalt titles no oh I thought you had Jim okay I guess I had John you 05:35:05.720 --> 05:35:34.780 There's a lot of gin, but not that one. Did you have that on your top five black metal albums the last five years, George? I must have. If I didn't, it was because I just completely overlooked it. No, you had it. And honestly, I think it might have been number one. I had it as number one. I don't think I was the only one. I could be wrong. I might have just like completely forgotten about it. I read it to be wrong. That's cool. I mean, but it is. I mean, 05:35:36.122 --> 05:35:39.000 As I mentioned it George I can kind of hear both you and me going 05:35:39.630 --> 05:35:39.740 Ah! 05:35:40.760 --> 05:35:44.480 You guys definitely did that because I think I was the only one who had it 05:35:44.600 --> 05:35:45.120 I'm pretty sure 05:35:45.340 --> 05:35:49.000 That was definitely one of my favorite Black Metal albums of 05:35:50.600 --> 05:35:51.000 Awesome 05:35:51.090 --> 05:35:52.720 You know the longest time so 05:35:54.542 --> 05:35:59.240 I will just tell you in advance that you all said a bunch of things that are on my honorable mentions 05:36:00.120 --> 05:36:00.360 Yeah 05:36:00.360 --> 05:36:01.180 That's my honorable mention 05:36:01.430 --> 05:36:05.040 Yeah Wolves in the Throne Room, Agaloc, Woe, I was surprised Woe didn't come up 05:36:05.040 --> 05:36:32.100 Yeah. Yeah. So I don't have a half hours, boys. That's my list. Yeah. Go or blood for the master is on there. A roads to the north. Like I said, with Matt was on there. Yellow eyes, sick with bloom, yellow eyes, hammer of night. And a wolves of the throne room, a diadem of 12 stars. All of those were on my honorable mentions. Blood for the master was on there. It was. It was nice. It makes me feel good in my heart. 05:36:37.140 --> 05:37:04.800 Yeah, I haven't seen Yellow Eyes. They did play Chicago. I missed the show when they came out here because I don't know what I was doing, something else, but I have not seen them yet, and they're one of my favorite black male men, so we'll see. There's a Yellow Eyes beer that I had. Really? Is it just because you drank so much of it? Fuck. No. Because you had to take a leak. There's an official Yellow Eyes beer. Well, should we walk in different directions now? 05:37:05.060 --> 05:37:34.320 Yeah, I'm fucking tired. Happy trails to Will. You fucking did it, Will. We're becoming the Zoom equivalent of one of those king rats. We're stuck together now. Yeah, yeah. Well, we gotta figure, I have to figure something out to shorten these things, so I'm sorry. No news. Well, I will say this. No news, no happens. I love you boys. It was always nice to see your handsome faces. Yeah, man, I had a blast, guys. I love talking to you, so. Likewise. 05:37:35.040 --> 05:37:38.120 Thank you gentlemen. Until next time. 05:37:39.120 --> 05:37:39.620 Brothers. 05:37:41.798 --> 05:37:42.760 Sleepies. 05:37:43.600 --> 05:37:43.800 Bye. 05:37:53.160 --> 05:37:54.560 "Breathing" 05:38:30.000 --> 05:38:41.040 ...by U.S. Customs and Border Protection...with contraband of drugs and cash. So the moment you receive this call, press 1 to speak with the CBP officer. 05:38:41.420 --> 05:38:45.740 I repeat press 1 to speak with CBP officer. Thank you.